[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Tyrone Biggums]

It makes total sense. Trump was already agitating to leave NATO and it would have been on the second term agenda.

Trump was telling the likes of Germany to stop leaching off the US and start paying their way in terms of military spending. Which was a fair point.

2018...

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump told NATO leaders on Wednesday they should increase their defense spending to 4 percent of their country’s economic output, double the group’s current goal of two percent.

NATO allies shrugged off the demand as part and parcel of Trump’s brash push for allies to spend more on their own defense at a summit in Brussels, with a quip from the alliance’s chief that it should aim to meet its goal before reaching further.

How do you think things might be different if they'd followed this request?

Would Europe be a far stronger military deterrent to Russia in 2022 if they had?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Ludicrous.

Insightful.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Trump was telling the likes of Germany to stop leaching off the US and start paying their way in terms of military spending. Which was a fair point.

2018...



How do you think things might be different if they'd followed this request?

Would Europe be a far stronger military deterrent to Russia in 2022 if they had?

Yes, he asked for an unrealistic target to set them up to fail and then out of NATO he strops.

Of course I support the 4% by the way. We may need it soon if Putin gets everything he wants in Ukraine. The clock on WW3 is ticking unless he is stopped.

Anyway, enough derailing of this thread discussing "Yesterday's Zero". Not interested beyond the initial chilling theory. Thankfully we didn't get there.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Yes, he asked for an unrealistic target to set them up to fail and then out of NATO he strops.

Anyway, enough about "Yesterday's Zero" on this thread.

Not unrealistic when you're facing apparently the greatest threat to European democracy. You make it happen.

 

[Zebedee]

Why are we so keen to take refugees from Afghanistan (and across the channel) and yet we appear to want little to do with the people fleeing Ukraine? I know we felt a responsibly for some Afghan refugees who worked for us as translators but we took in many more Afghan refugees than that and I'd be amazed if we undertook any basic checks before allowing them entry. In terms of security risks to this country, does anyone truly believe that Ukrainians present more of a danger than people from Afghanistan? So why aren't we sending military aircraft to Poland or Hungary to bring some of the Ukrainians to the UK? Is it a sign of yet more anti-European bias from Boris? I grow more despondent with this country and our government day by day.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Putin probably thought he could get away with it under Biden, why wouldn't he though when he'd annexed Crimea in 2014 when Biden was Vice President and got away with it.

Putin had the playbook on one already on how the US would act militarily, the other loose cannon he had no idea how to read what might happen.


As they say, it takes crazy to recognise crazy.

Great plan to avoid WW3. Very insightful.

 

[The Clamp]

Insightful.

Well, what more is there to say? Putin would have taken Trump for a mug. Like he has every other world leader. He has nothing but contempt for the West. He uses our governments like pawns.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Trump was telling the likes of Germany to stop leaching off the US and start paying their way in terms of military spending. Which was a fair point.

2018...



How do you think things might be different if they'd followed this request?

Would Europe be a far stronger military deterrent to Russia in 2022 if they had?

No, not really. We have a nuclear deterrent that works at 2 or 4 % defence spending. Just posturing by Trump aimed at his hick fanbase back home. The only way NATO could have become involved in this war would have been to admit Ukraine and others as members but Trump wanted to roll back on NATO not expand it.

 

[Motogull]

the bog trotter.

You might get a sacked bottom for that.

 

[Triggaaar]

It has just hit me what Putin's chilling plan would have been.

Ukraine invaded. And then into the Baltics.

Trump gives no support whatsoever, says that the USA won't defend the Baltics and as a result USA leaves NATO. Europe at Putin's ( lack of ) mercy.

Russia are struggling against Ukraine. Russia wouldn't have a chance of defeating Europe.

 

[Triggaaar]

They hit one of the bases where exercises with foreign troops take place.

9 dead and more injured. I don't understand why they were still there, surely it was obvious it was going to be hit?

 

[Triggaaar]

Trump was telling the likes of Germany to stop leaching off the US and start paying their way in terms of military spending. Which was a fair point.

Yes, that was a fair point, but getting rejected was also fair.

2018...


How do you think things might be different if they'd followed this request?

Would Europe be a far stronger military deterrent to Russia in 2022 if they had?

I doubt Europe would have been that much stronger having increased spending for a few years. But that's not really relevant to today's events because Putin isn't attacking Nato countries, so he'd still have attacked Ukraine and we'd still be in the same position.

In fact, if Obama had pushed for more spending from Nato allies, and they had spent more, you'd be on here arguing that the increased spending from Nato in Europe was an aggressive move towards Russia and caused this invasion.

 

[Eric the meek]

Another mayor has been abducted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60717902

(Timestamp 10:04)

Presumably a new Russian policy.

 

[Eric the meek]

9 dead and more injured. I don't understand why they were still there, surely it was obvious it was going to be hit?

Yes, I was wondering that.

It could be that they didn't expect to be attacked, or thought the anti-aircraft defences were enough.

Maybe this base will now move operations to inside the Polish border. I've no idea what they were doing, but they were obviously of interest to the Russians.

 

[Triggaaar]

Another mayor has been abducted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60717902

(Timestamp 10:04)

Presumably a new Russian policy.

Does this mean we should expect some captured Ukrainian mayors to appear on TV soon, 'confessing' to be Nazis?

 

[Eric the meek]

Does this mean we should expect some captured Ukrainian mayors to appear on TV soon, 'confessing' to be Nazis?

Perhaps, but this seems like we're returning to the Soviet era, replacing dissenting voices with only those who are on message.
On a related note, there is an exodus of Russians from Russia going on right now:

'Russia faces brain drain as thousands flee abroad'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60697763

I don't usually make predictions, but the next step is for Putin to close the borders, so that ordinary Russians can no longer flee (and therefore phone their families with the real news).

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Russia are struggling against Ukraine. Russia wouldn't have a chance of defeating Europe.

Indeed. As things are now.

But the hypothetical rabbit hole we were going down in that part of this thread was that Trump could well have pulled USA out of NATO and at that point an invasion of the Baltics backed up with nuclear threats would be a different prospect.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Yes, I was wondering that.

It could be that they didn't expect to be attacked, or thought the anti-aircraft defences were enough.

Maybe this base will now move operations to inside the Polish border. I've no idea what they were doing, but they were obviously of interest to the Russians.

I suspect it was the initial place that foreign military volunteers go to. Like the handful of AWOL British Army volunteers ( my guess, no evidence ).

 

[vegster]

Does this mean we should expect some captured Ukrainian mayors to appear on TV soon, 'confessing' to be Nazis?

Yes, once they have been weaned off all the drugs they are taking.

Seriously, The Russians seem to be still using the same playbook they have used since the 60's. Its so blindingly obvious that its torture and coercion to get a fake admission.

 

[dazzer6666]

[tweet]1502758799861497863[/tweet]