[Albion] Manchester United vs Brighton & Hove Albion *** Official Match Thread ***

[Easy 10]

The replays show that Webster might have got there - or might not. Whatever decision the ref. gives - for or against a red card - is by definition not a clear and obvious error. Not clear and obvious enough to be overturned.
I struggle to see why this basic and clear principle is so difficult for English VAR operators to understand. VAR in other countries doesn't seem to have this same pathetic neediness to get involved at any cost, to massage their own self-importance, regardless of whether intervention is required.

Nailed it.

The touch from Elanga sent the ball a LONG WAY ahead, Webster was easily favourite to get a challenge in. On what planet was it a "clear and obvious error" not to send Dunk off ?

That decision was made on pure and utter conjecture. If you're going to send someone off, then surely you have to be CERTAIN of it. VAR absolutely done us, because it basically seems to be the law once you go to the monitor that the decision will be changed to whatever the herbert in Stockley Park dictates.

Pathetic decision - and NO WAY would that have been given were it at the other end for the other team. Fact.

 

[METALMICKY]

Spot on - and spot on by Potter, who knows better what he's talking about than any punter on NSC for my money. It was a matter of judgement as to whether Webster would have covered it - and TBF it was a close call. But that is the whole point - it was a close call so whichever the on-field ref. gives it, it is not a clear and obvious error.

Absolutely this! And I'm always keen to not have blue and white specs on. The application of VAR is paradoxically flawed if it relies on a clear and obvious error. VAR can look at it but why does that official request the referee to look at it? Independently that official should conclude there is a heavy touch by the attacker and a real possibility that Webster could cover it. And then on that basis he should tell ref to stick with his decision. The paradox is that instead he asks ref to take a look as he ' thinks ' he's made an error as opposed to ' feck me ' you've dropped a clanger there and you need to see it.

And while we're at it I'm not seeing much debate about the foul the ref gave for them leading to their second. Sure perhaps irrelevant as clock almost done but makes the scoreline even more flattering.

And McTominay is a tool too!

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Very disappointing and frustrating result in a game that was there for the taking. Two acts of sloppiness have cost us.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Was at a leaving drinks in London and missed the whole thing. Sounds frustrating. Let's hope we take our chances on Saturday.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Manchester United vs Brighton & Hove Albion *** Official Match Thread ***

Clear and obvious is relevant. If it is not clear and obvious, VAR has no business getting involved. 'Hmm .. I've seen them given' for example, or 'That could gave gone either way' are not clear and obvious enough for the VAR to poke its nose in.

I and lots of others including the referee after watching it back thought it was a clear and obvious error though and it was a definite red.

It’s still a subjective decision as are lots of VAR calls which is one of the reasons why VAR is a crap idea in football in the first place as it will never stop these arguments.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I and lots of others including the referee after watching it back thought it was a clear and obvious error though and it was a definite red.

It’s still a subjective decision as are lots of VAR calls which is one of the reasons why VAR is a crap idea in football in the first place as it will never stop these arguments.

I thought it was 50/50, and don’t think there was enough to overturn it in this instance.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Tough breaks all round .. evidently a home ref who allowed himself to be intimidated by the United players and crowd. I do not see it as a sending off. Dunk and their man tangled outside the area , both players mixing it , Webster was there so it was not the “last man” . Also several free kick decisions went to MU that could easily be ours.
Despite all that we did not take our chances , and got punished for some errors. A good exciting game and no disgrace to lose up there.

 

[GT49er]

I thought it was 50/50, and don’t think there was enough to overturn it in this instance.

Exactly. The referee changed his mind when he looked at it again (or more likely wasn't brave enough to defy the VAR and the aggressive mobbing he'd have got from Slabhead and co.) - the point is there wasn't enough clear and obvious to justify the VAR getting involved in the first place.

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

Agree with many - harsh defeat but we contributed to our own downfall. GP very rarely comments about decision so for him to mention VAR is notable and I think he was right. He said if Dunky had been given a straight red then that’s the ref’s call but for VAR to intervene was unnecessary. I know lots of clubs players pressurise the ref but I think Maguire, Fernandez and co are some of the worst and that pressure told on an inexperienced set of officials.

Sloppy start to second half and the usual lack of clinical finish plus De Gea wonder save did the trick sadly. Realistically I am more focused on the fact that us, Villa and Saints all have games on Saturday against clubs in bottom five. Would be great to bounce back at home

 

[Hugo Rune]

Red all day long and the only mistake being the ref didn't give it in the first place.

‘All day long’?

The pace Webster was running at on the replay suggests that he had more than a good chance to cover. Not ‘all day long’ at all but I’d have reluctantly accepted a straight red if the ref had issued one. However, there was nothing clear and obvious about the incident; the decision should not have be referred back to the ref. But this is Old bloody Trafford. Friend is a friend to the Bug Six.

 

[beorhthelm]

I and lots of others including the referee after watching it back thought it was a clear and obvious error though and it was a definite red.

It’s still a subjective decision as are lots of VAR calls which is one of the reasons why VAR is a crap idea in football in the first place as it will never stop these arguments.

if its clear and obvious, its not subjective.

 

[maltaseagull]

Absolutely this! And I'm always keen to not have blue and white specs on. The application of VAR is paradoxically flawed if it relies on a clear and obvious error. VAR can look at it but why does that official request the referee to look at it? Independently that official should conclude there is a heavy touch by the attacker and a real possibility that Webster could cover it. And then on that basis he should tell ref to stick with his decision. The paradox is that instead he asks ref to take a look as he ' thinks ' he's made an error as opposed to ' feck me ' you've dropped a clanger there and you need to see it.

And while we're at it I'm not seeing much debate about the foul the ref gave for them leading to their second. Sure perhaps irrelevant as clock almost done but makes the scoreline even more flattering.

And McTominay is a tool too!

I think the ref didn't give a foul on Mac Allister for a push but gave a handball against him when he claimed the ball assuming it would be given.

And agree, his is a tool of the highest order. Way too full of himself and a mouthy gobshite.

 

[Farehamseagull]

if its clear and obvious, its not subjective.

But what you define as clear and obvious isn’t what I might so it is subjective. Look at the different reactions on here to that decision last night.

That’s the problem with having VAR in football, it’s not looking at black and white decisions like in cricket, it’s never going to work.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Disappointed but having man United shitting themselves against 10 little old Brighton players at home is a sign of how far we have come.

Looking forward to the return fixture

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Football fans massively over analyse mistakes which lead to a goal which usually wouldn't and under analyse the things which don't lead to a bad outcome that probably should have.

For example .....

Dunk's mistake, probably leads to a sending off 1 time out of 10.

Bissouma losing possession for first goal probably leads to a goal 1 time out of 10

Sanchez kick out to a Man Utd striker, probably leads to a goal 6 times out of 10

The actions that happen after one of these events, an incredible strike by Ronaldo, a calamitous referring decision, a botched attempt at a 2 on 1 from them, we can't really control. I find these debates very curious

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

But what you define as clear and obvious isn’t what I might so it is subjective. Look at the different reactions on here to that decision last night.

That’s the problem with having VAR in football, it’s not looking at black and white decisions like in cricket, it’s never going to work.

Yeh, best just bin it off.

Officials have had plenty of chances to keep it to clear and obvious but are unable to do so.

The game was way better before

 

[Stat Brother]

Yeh, best just bin it off.

Officials have had plenty of chances to keep it to clear and obvious but are unable to do so.

The game was way better before

It most definitely wasn't.
I was just ruined differently.



Anyhoo I can't believe just how 'one man team' Utd are.
Every single pass forward was looking for Ron.
I was expecting them (and their fans) to be poor, but not actually poor poor, just poor for Utd.

But stone me they were proper shitehouse.

Had we not thrown them a bone, every 20 minutes or so, they offered nothing.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Had we not thrown them a bone, every 20 minutes or so, they offered nothing.

No sure anyone could sum that game up better in less words.

 

[Berty23]

I have been amused by the fact that media saying mctom passed it to Ronaldo. He didn’t. He made a tackle. The ball could have gone anywhere. It just happened to land perfectly at Ronaldo’s feet. Sadly he did what he has done for 20 years.

We didn’t get the luck and Man U did. Anyone who watched that game knows we were the better side so we accept that and move on. I am over it now.

 

[super-seagulls]

I just wanna say 3 things
1. i HATE ronaldo
2. Modar my fav player QUALITY
3. We must convert more chances as we could've been 2 or 3 up at HT and game almost over. Heads high the score did not reflect the performance. Bounce back Saturday.

If he is your ‘fav’ player you could at least learn to spell his name.
I know it’s Polish but it’s 5 letters it is not Kuszczak difficult.