[Misc] Fox hunting banned on National Trust land

[lawros left foot]

Ok, I guess that makes sense. As I've said, I've no sympathy for them at all.

I think my concern is that the National Trust is now being dragged into being yet another new front in these ever-expanding culture wars. If I was overthinking it I might feel that this what the government would like to see rather than ensure the laws are enforced themselves.

This Government would rather have seen full Fox hunting legalised again, but, due to public opinion, they had to remove it from their last manifesto, even though the Prime Minister called Fox hunting a “semi sexual experience “

 

[ATFC Seagull]

This Government would rather have seen full Fox hunting legalised again, but, due to public opinion, they had to remove it from their last manifesto, even though the Prime Minister called Fox hunting a “semi sexual experience “

Yep, I remember May wanting to put it in 2017 for sure.

I'm not so sure that this government wouldn't prefer this to legalising it themselves, a chance for the to see a pretty inoffensive organisation such as the National Trust be accused of a "woke" takeover, especially in light of the slavery plaques debate etc.

 

[Motogull]

The Cuntryside Alliance have done a good job of keeping the 'behind the scenes' activities out of the public domain. Its fukken sick, the cubbing process and I hope all involved in that die horrible deaths.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I was (am still) pretty agnostic to the subject, feeling it was mildly hypocritical to eat meat and be worried about fox hunting.

However, the fox hunting "industry", well let's call it out for what it is a "sport" has never been particularly forthcoming about the other animals involved.

It does little or nothing to control the fox population, they rarely catch one but blimey they don't half get through some dogs.

"Putting down the dogs" was a disingenuous excuse. They put them down anyway in their thousands at approximately half their natural lifespan.

Any different from the male cattle and poultry that are systematically destroyed in pursuit of milk and eggs ?

Not really, but you don't hear a farmer saying if we become vegan, thousands of animals will be put to death because they can't be re-homed.

I am a meat eater though reducing it but at 65 hard to change habits.

In my view this is not about killing animals per se its about management of this country's wildlife and why the animals are killed. Personally I can't accept it where foxes are hunted for 'fun' so they can be ripped apart after a period of terror so that someone can have a laugh. This is not an isolated issue its part of the systematic killing of wildlife (stoats, polecats, foxes, badgers, birds of prey) to enable people to go out and take pot shots at birds that in most cases are not good flyers. Masses are killed - some are eaten but most are binned. It's a mentality which is killing the planet i.e. where can i make a profit or take 'pleasure' rather than do what's good for the world. Foxes are on the decline in rural areas, i suspect the same is true of stoats and polecats , pine martins were pretty much eliminated by game keepers in England. This is our wildlife heritage its disappearing rapidly.

You are right to raise the issues of the dogs (and horses) they are treated as a unit of production and when they don't deliver or indeed when they look like they won't be killers they are killed. It shows the same mindset as I described above. 17 years after the ban was put in place why are the dogs still bred as killers (and have to be putdown as they can be rehoused) simple answer because trail hunting is a sham.

You say you are agnostic , I would ask you to look at this as part of a bigger debate about how we save this planet and everything on it.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

What tipped the national trust was not Chris Packham but the fact that a hunting saboteur hijacked a zoom meeting and recorded it. The hunt leaders on the call admitted that trail hunting was a sham so they could kill foxes . They also discussed all the tricks used to deceive the police about what they were up to. Not sure if people are aware but this is the second vote on this, the previous one about 3-4 years ago failed even though the majority of people voted against it but the chairman of the NT board conjured up 4000 proxy votes to over turn the decision. One hunt was seen on national trust land today , they don't give a f*ck about the law or what other people think.

Hunting continued after 2004 because many very powerful and wealthy tories support it and they control the local police( e. g. Rees-Mogg wife is/was chair of a hunt as is Soames and Boris found it sexually arousing ). The police are often involved and its clear whose side they are on. Now people might say well it has to be saboteurs who are a problem - great unwashed and soap dodgers tresspassing etc looking for fights. Most saboteurs are pacifists and funnily enough are trying to ensure a law is followed. There are also hunt monitors who are completely separate to the saboteurs - often middle aged and older, often women who go to maintain the law and keep within the law. Both groups have to put up with all sorts of abuse, intimidation and the occasion attack , if the same actions were carried out at a football ground the perpetrators of the attacks would be arrested.

One clear example of the bias from the police is that people who do hare coursing are arrested by police , why because they are usually either travellers or low working class. Note I agree they should arrest them but they need to do that against fox hunters.

[emoji106]

Sent from my SM-A326B using Tapatalk

 

[clapham_gull]

You say you are agnostic , I would ask you to look at this as part of a bigger debate about how we save this planet and everything on it.

Not sure being patronising ever wins support in a debate. I am somewhat agnostic to fox hunting, because it's a very small issue in face of the problems this planet is facing.

It's also had the tendency to become a "poster" animal concern issue at the expense of others.

​It's very easy to be anti-fox hunting but far more difficult to be anti meat production, anti car and air travel.

 

[Weststander]

Because the law was written up with a lot of grey areas. It should have just banned hunting with dogs in it’s entirety, instead it left a huge amount of wriggle room for the perverts to keep using hounds to tear other creatures to pieces.

If hunting was a working class sport, like Cock fighting, badger baiting, and dog fighting it would have been banned at the same time they were.

And the snides have ruthlessly broken the law from day one, ‘happening upon foxes’.

 

[Weststander]

Not sure being patronising ever wins support in a debate. I am somewhat agnostic to fox hunting, because it's a very small issue in face of the problems this planet is facing.

It's also had the tendency to become a "poster" animal concern issue at the expense of others.

​It's very easy to be anti-fox hunting but far more difficult to be anti meat production, anti car and air travel.

It hardly ever gets a mention in the media. When someone posts about fox hunting on nsc, normally they get about 3 comments from equally kind, humane people.

 

[clapham_gull]

It hardly ever gets a mention in the media. When someone posts about fox hunting on nsc, normally they get about 3 comments from equally kind, humane people.

It did a few years ago though. My annoyance is that it's all centred around the fox and not about the industrial breeding of hounds in pursuit of a sport.

Those lucky enough to pass the original trials are blown away at approximately half their natural lifespan.

To me this opens up further debates on how we kill animals for waste in the process of killing other animals for sport or food.

So personally, I'm more challenged about eating eggs (which I do) where millions of unusable male chicks are basically thrown in a blender.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Not sure being patronising ever wins support in a debate. I am somewhat agnostic to fox hunting, because it's a very small issue in face of the problems this planet is facing.

It's also had the tendency to become a "poster" animal concern issue at the expense of others.

​It's very easy to be anti-fox hunting but far more difficult to be anti meat production, anti car and air travel.

Not sure how you can read me being patronising into my response. More a plea of desperation to get the uncommitted to take a side of an argument.

Its a small issue to some but it's actually a part of a bigger problem and for this country to take a stand against trophy hunting or deforestation it first needs to get itself isorted out regards it's management of its wildlife.

I think I also mentioned a few 'less attractive options in my list of animals that are killed unnecessarily. But I see no issue making the fox the poster boy/girl of a campaign if that gets people involved with the environment, from my experience people who are interested in foxes are interested in other wildlife. I see a lot of comments on hedgehog forums debunking how foxes are helping to wipe out hedgehogs (countryside alliance garbage) and how they live together.

There are a lot of big issues we need to resolve but that doesn't mean you can't deal with lower priority ones especially easy wins.

 

[clapham_gull]

Its a small issue to some but it's actually a part of a bigger problem and for this country to take a stand against trophy hunting or deforestation it first needs to get itself isorted out regards it's management of its wildlife.

But fox hunting has little or nothing to do with trophy hunting or deforestation. The fox as a species isn't endangered and fox hunting has negligible effort on the environment.

It's an out of date, pretty useless (and now very politicised) method of controlling foxes. But it sits alongside a number of other country activities that are very easy to target, whilst sticking our head in the sand regarding the way meat is produced on an industrial scale, air travel etc... The ones most of us are responsible for, as opposed to ones we aren't.

I don't see it as an "entry level" concern to educate people about wider concerns. They'd be better off concerning themselves about species and environments that are really under threat.

Chris Packham made a very good point a few years ago about the attention and money that went into saving the Panda. As much as he didn't want the Panda to disappear, he acknowledged that the campaign received a disproportionate amount of funding to little effect when it could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[abc]

If hunting was a working class sport, like Cock fighting, badger baiting, and dog fighting it would have been banned at the same time they were.

I pitched up at hunt to join the protests once. What surprised me was how few hunters were on horseback (undoubtedly the wealthy) and how the vast majority were on foot. The latter being the 'working class' of the countryside who appeared to see things in terms of 'urban elite' trying to supress the traditions of the rural working class. It didn't change my stance against fox hunting but it did make me wonder how much of the opposition is about class and less about the fox, Not that the fox cares either way of course!

 

[Dr Q]

I pitched up at hunt to join the protests once. What surprised me was how few hunters were on horseback (undoubtedly the wealthy) and how the vast majority were on foot. The latter being the 'working class' of the countryside who appeared to see things in terms of 'urban elite' trying to supress the traditions of the rural working class. It didn't change my stance against fox hunting but it did make me wonder how much of the opposition is about class and less about the fox, Not that the fox cares either way of course!

I would think more than 50% is class related. The known 'rent a sab' groups that pitch up in paramilitary gear certainly don't give a flying **** about Reynard.

I wonder why the NT, Pwackham and his ilk never raise the issue of illegal hare coursing. Equally abhorrent as Fox hunting if you think about it, but as its generally undertaken by the lower classes and our caravan wielding leeches (not the Palace fans!), they steer well clear!

 

[keaton]

I would think more than 50% is class related. The known 'rent a sab' groups that pitch up in paramilitary gear certainly don't give a flying **** about Reynard.

I wonder why the NT, Pwackham and his ilk never raise the issue of illegal hare coursing. Equally abhorrent as Fox hunting if you think about it, but as its generally undertaken by the lower classes and our caravan wielding leeches (not the Palace fans!), they steer well clear!

I think it being related to class is an easy defence for people with no real argument. But as you've you'd to use whataboutery and mocking people who have speech impediments I'm not sure you've not much of a case or class

 

[Dr Q]

I think it being related to class is an easy defence for people with no real argument. But as you've you'd to use whataboutery and mocking people who have speech impediments I'm not sure you've not much of a case or class

oh bless

 

[WATFORD zero]

I would think more than 50% is class related. The known 'rent a sab' groups that pitch up in paramilitary gear certainly don't give a flying **** about Reynard.

I wonder why the NT, Pwackham and his ilk never raise the issue of illegal hare coursing. Equally abhorrent as Fox hunting if you think about it, but as its generally undertaken by the lower classes and our caravan wielding leeches (not the Palace fans!), they steer well clear!

You've been rolling that one out for over 40 years to my knowledge. It was used whenever a few of us turned up who weren't pacifists and weren't prepared to be intimidated or rolled over by a few of the Hunt's thugs in a couple of Land Rovers. 'They're fighting back, they must be paid, someone call the police quick'

You also missed hunts don't intend to kill foxes, don't go cubbing, don't use captured foxes to train young hounds, don't block fox dens, don't 'euthanise' young hounds not up to hunting, ones that get lame and ones that get older (and probably a raft of others), What a complete and utter load of

Don't look here ... ...Hare coursing ... ... ... look over there

 

[drew]

I would think more than 50% is class related. The known 'rent a sab' groups that pitch up in paramilitary gear certainly don't give a flying **** about Reynard.

I wonder why the NT, Pwackham and his ilk never raise the issue of illegal hare coursing. Equally abhorrent as Fox hunting if you think about it, but as its generally undertaken by the lower classes and our caravan wielding leeches (not the Palace fans!), they steer well clear!

He has, it just doesn't grab the headlines.

 

[BadFish]

He has, it just doesn't grab the headlines.

A quick google is easy enough.

Too hard for Dr Q though.

 

[rippleman]

I would think more than 50% is class related. The known 'rent a sab' groups that pitch up in paramilitary gear certainly don't give a flying **** about Reynard.

I wonder why the NT, Pwackham and his ilk never raise the issue of illegal hare coursing. Equally abhorrent as Fox hunting if you think about it, but as its generally undertaken by the lower classes and our caravan wielding leeches (not the Palace fans!), they steer well clear!

Having to resort to mocking somebody because of a speech impediment really does serve to advance your cause and support your argument.

Well done.

 

[A1X]

Wasn't it all going to be bought back under the 2019 Tory manifesto? Or was it 2017 they promised that?