[Football] That Crystal Palace banner

[Gilliver's Travels]

Clean? Comparatively, yes. Have the Abu Dhabi regime bombed hospitals in Yemen or murdered journalists? Not that we've heard of, and I'm pretty sure that the Glazers and Stan Kroenke haven't.

Yes, many of us are no doubt complicit by omission, but I can't see how we can object to fans, even of our greatest rivals, taking a strong stand. More fans should do it.

Spot on. We should all take a principled stand, right up to PM level.
After all, it's not as if the UK makes £squillions year upon year from selling weapons of mass destruction to the Saudis.

Oh.

 

[R. Slicker]

I wonder what we would all do if an Abramovich or a Saudi or Qatari lot bought BHAFC ?

Would we get the banners out, or would we reserve judgement, and 'see how it goes', while hoping for a title and Champions League footie?

I'm afraid I know which direction I would take.

Personally, I would go and watch Worthing.
Very proud of our owner.

 

[sparkie]

Where is FC United of Newcastle ?

Or are all the Newcastle fans who are appalled switching to Gateshead or Blyth Spartans ?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's not about money. They don't need money. If they go the same way as City they will spend billions and will only declare profit if they find creative ways to sponsor themselves.

It's about normalising their reputation. City are the perfect example. When you think of Sheikh Mansour you think of De Bruyne, Pep, Grealish etc. They have successfully created an image of the Abu Dhabi group as doing great things for Manchester and the Premier League. Very few have spoken of the atrocities the owners have (alledgedly) committed and the concerns of their rule raised by Amnesty International. They don't appear to give a shit about the football club, the owner doesn't ever go. It's just a pure vanity project.

The challenge Newcastle have is that the crimes are greater and much higher profile after the killing of the journalist, and with City, PSG, now Newcastle and also the Qatar World Cup on the horizon, people's understanding of Sportswashing is increasing and more people are talking about what's really going on.

Of course, it will all be forgotten in a few years time when all the protests like the one at Selhurst have been shut down by the league and its clubs and Sky and the Toon Army are jizzing themselves about Mbappe being the greatest Newcastle striker since Shearer.



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Thanks. That gives me a clearer view of why they are doing it. Owning Newcastle will give them the influence they crave. I will leave that there because I don't understand it but I cannot argue with it if you are confident you are right (and you make your points with clarity and confidence).

While attempting to address the accusation that I am an agent of the Saudis, it occurred to me that there may be two strands to this conversation based on different assumptions about what the Palace banner is intended to achiever.

Some think it is to initiate a movement to drive the Saudis out of football.

Others think it is simply yet another (and an excellent) example of fans winding up other fans and possibly the opposition itself. I had disregarded this second possibility.

Perhaps among the Palace fans there are those who think one thing and others who think the other, and many somewhere in between. I'll watch over the next few weeks how this plays out, with interest, but my expectation is that in any campaign where it is unclear what 'success' looks like, the outcome is more likely to be failure.

And just in case anyone still misunderstands, I regard the Saudi regime as disgusting and evil and that the fact we have sat on our hands, drinking their oil as if it were their warm milk for decades, is shameful. And stepping down the ladder of reprehensibility we soon encounter other deplorable nation state owners, oligarchs, etc.Where will it all end?

My old boss doesn't like me criticising anyone or anything in my sector on the grounds of (and I don't know the bible quote) something about only those free of sin should accuse others, and that people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I regard this as dangerous and foolish. I am not a liberal. The tough ask for me, in my sector, is how to help make things better (and here I am talking about research practice and ethics).

In the wider context the issue of 'how to sort out the Saudis' and other evil regimes is a tough question to answer. I don't know the answer. Not even remotely.

Fast forward to banners at football.....lovely, and what harm can it do? But as part of a wider national campaign about Saudi ownership, they are having a laugh.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I also know what direction you would take.

Working class binmen swearing = unacceptable.

Oligarchs beheading people = look the other way.

Its how upper class people function.

Give it a rest. Tyrannical regimes are not overthrown by bedsit warriors.

 

[The Clamp]

Curious what it takes for people to take notice.
Successive governments have been balls deep with the Saudi’s for decades. We are referred to as The Eighth Emirate in many political circles.
This government have ramped that relationship up significantly for reasons not worth going into further on here.
Really, the purchasing of a football club was as inevitable as Cliff at Christmas.
There is a far bigger picture here.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Posted on Facebook
By an esteemed and we’ll loved NSCer, who is also a revolutionary Marxist…hahahahahahaha

 

[Swansman]

Give it a rest. Tyrannical regimes are not overthrown by bedsit warriors.

Neither helped by bedsit warriors.

They get a lot of help from apologetics like you however. "The Saudis are evil, but..."

 

[Eric the meek]

I also know what direction you would take.

Working class binmen swearing = unacceptable.

Oligarchs beheading people = look the other way.

Its how upper class people function.

That's hilarious! Why do you think I'm upper class?

You had me eating lobsters and drinking champagne the other day!

Howling mad. Mind you, we have just had a full moon.

P.S. You're right. The fooball comes first.

 

[Motogull]

Pathetic.

Diddums.

Business is business however dirty. We want their oil and they want our weapons. A sporting arena is not the place to protest ****ish regimes. Who appointed them bellends official protesters anyway? If they are that bothered why not make representations to their MPs and vote accordingly? Pissing in the wind as too much money is at stake between the counties and football is non event in comparison to that.

If they are in favour of traditional football, why not protest the new stand and its corporate intentions? Oh yeah, silly me because they got moved to better seats at the expense of the fans they claim to represent.
[MENTION=11836]The Optimist[/MENTION] and BN41Albion, whether it is spot on is neither here not there but if done by fans of another club a sarky "ooh that'll teach them" reply would have been likely.

I applaud the bellends for convincing many that despite previous behavior, they really are 'good guys' for stating the bleeding obvious.

 

[El Presidente]

Nothing wrong with that, we have free speech here

Given the speed at which the Palace stewards took down the banner, I'm not so sure of that.

 

[Eric the meek]

Spot on. We should all take a principled stand, right up to PM level.
After all, it's not as if the UK makes £squillions year upon year from selling weapons of mass destruction to the Saudis.

Oh.

Don't forget the spare parts and the ammo. They're worth a few lobster dinners as well.

 

[Swansman]

That's hilarious! Why do you think I'm upper class?

You had me eating lobsters and drinking champagne the other day!

Howling mad. Mind you, we have just had a full moon.

P.S. You're right. The fooball comes first.

Its obvious.

Diddums.

Business is business however dirty. We want their oil and they want our weapons. A sporting arena is not the place to protest ****ish regimes. Who appointed them bellends official protesters anyway? If they are that bothered why not make representations to their MPs and vote accordingly? Pissing in the wind as too much money is at stake between the counties and football is non event in comparison to that.

If they are in favour of traditional football, why not protest the new stand and its corporate intentions? Oh yeah, silly me because they got moved to better seats at the expense of the fans they claim to represent.

[MENTION=11836]The Optimist[/MENTION] and BN41Albion, whether it is spot on is neither here not there but if done by fans of another club a sarky "ooh that'll teach them" reply would have been likely.

I applaud the bellends for convincing many that despite previous behavior, they really are 'good guys' for stating the bleeding obvious.

Didnt think there was a sentiment of Brighton fans anywhere near as morally bankrupt as those Newcastle fans celebrating the regime taking over their club but clearly I was wrong. All the whataboutery and "business is business" excuses and calling out people who protest Saudi atrocities.

What a world. Thatcher really did a job on you guys.

 

[martin tyler]

Neither helped by bedsit warriors.

They get a lot of help from apologetics like you however. "The Saudis are evil, but..."

The point is there is a but here.
Banner sentiments are right don't think anyone disputes that. Will we protest. No idea.
But football sold out the premier league sold out. They created something they can not sustain without selling out.
We are changing a whole calendar year to squeeze a World Cup in Qatar where it’s fine apparently for 6500 migrant workers to have died. A World Cup I think we can safely say was won with corruption. A world
Cup with literally blood on its hands.
Sweden will most likely qualify, England will qualify. As that tournament goes on streets will be lined with millions of people hoping their country win the trophy. People will remember what an amazing world
Cup it was blah blah blah. The life’s of the people lost for a sporting event will be forgotten. Just as these countries will want. They will be remembered for supposedly putting on a great event. An event personally I’ll boycott but unless the whole world boycotts it what’s the point.
But don’t worry Gary Neville said he is planning to go there and educate people whilst he is there about human rights. God forbid those people listen to him, they will be hung behind closed doors once we all leave again.
I’m sorry we invited the devil along years before. We just invited another to sit at the table.
It’s disgusting for sure but the train left the junction years ago.

 

[El Presidente]

People are upset at Newcastle due to the human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia, it's just as well that no other clubs are flying the flag for autocratic regimes that detain and kill opponents, restrict freedom of movement and expression.

https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/rwanda/

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Football sold out years before this take over especially the premier league. Newcastle are not the first owners to have been welcomed in with open arms to the party despite clear links to some atrocious crimes.
Look at the wages paid, lack of respect for fans in terms of kick off times, ticket prices at times ect. Clubs in the championship chasing a dream few ever making it and most eventually ending up back there be it one two three of 10 years later.
With each new multi billionaire coming in the pool of clubs who are likely to be relegated decreases. If Newcastle stay up this year then they won’t be relegated anytime soon. Is this what is being protested against?
The premier league doesn’t care anymore they just want a brand that has all the best players and they don’t care how it’s brought. The monster they have created is unsustainable now without it they know it.
Do I think this take over should have happened? Definitely not but if you allow one criminal country or person into football then they will all be in. Sports washing is top of the iceberg. I wasn’t surprised PIF deal got through with a little tweak of paperwork. Someone somewhere will be living of the proceeds of that deal for the rest of their life.
Are England and it’s fans going to boycott the World Cup? Qatar death toll for migrants workers for a corrupt is over 6500 reported deaths. Seems unlikely.
Banner sentiment I think is right. But it is something that should have been done years ago.

Couldn't get past ect, sorry

 

[Seasider78]

It seems anyone can abandon their morals for the right price in football

https://twitter.com/skysports/status/1452167980247236611?s=21

 

[Swansman]

It seems anyone can abandon their morals for the right price in football

https://twitter.com/skysports/status/1452167980247236611?s=21

Its ok and nothing to be angry about because some morally depraved company or state sponsored some sellout individual in the past.

source: northstandchat.com

 

[Hugo Rune]

People are upset at Newcastle due to the human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia, it's just as well that no other clubs are flying the flag for autocratic regimes that detain and kill opponents, restrict freedom of movement and expression.

It’s also just as well no other EPL ownership is connected with PIF………

Oops. Well, maybe ‘most’ of the EPL ownership rather than all excluding Newcastle of course.

 

[Baldseagull]

Stop being silly. You're showing you conspiracy theory credentials by declaring I have 'true colours'. Do you really think I'm on a secret mission to promote Islamic terrorism?

My personal view is we should have either struck proper hard bargains over oil deals decades ago (rather than bending over with both eyes clsed, as The West did) or invaded the minute it looked like they were committing human rights abuses, and the second it looked like they were funding terrorism. Instead we sold them arms, with out eyes wide open

Unfortunately we are where we are.

As for sportswashing, what does this actually mean? Wikepedia says "Sportswashing is the practice of an individual, group, corporation, or nation-state using a major or prestigious international sport to improve its reputation, through hosting a sporting event, the purchase or sponsorship of sporting teams, or by participation in the sport itself.". OK, so what's wong with that? If you happen to be mad and murderous it won't work, except in the minds of the gullable, and who cares about them?

So the Saudis buy Newcastle and lots of people say 'Newcastle are doing well now, lets give the Saudis some love and money!" We don't do that with Emirates airlines or the Glazers (no idea even what they sell). What is gained here and why should I care? All the Saudis have done is invite a light to be shined on their shithousery on account of their cheeky bid to own a successful football club. A few thick geordies in black and white arab wear at the football can **** right off, surely?

The Glazers are an entirely different problem, they bought the club with the clubs money, not theirs, that is the issue with them.