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[Football] World Cup - Day Sixteen



Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,739
Eastbourne
I love ‘em.

Too young to have seen the 1970 team, but 1982, 1994, 1998 and 2002, contained truly brilliant individuals.

I think bizarre hate is a really British thing, I could be wrong. Jealousy and hating superlatives, whether it be successful stars in these islands or across the globe. I wonder when it started? Did the average Brit on the building site or office in 1970 despise Tostao and Jairzinho, in 1974 Cruyff and Krol?

I call @Harry Wilson's tackle , I find his societal analysis interesting.
But a lot of those teams, especially after 1982, were hyped ridiculously. I became bored and fed up with all the commentators slavering over distinctly average players. The modern team is great, but the cheats in the team spoil the achievements. Pele was class and wouldn't have dreamed of diving. I think they have maybe the worst offenders. They may end up playing Argentina, come on Mac!
 




Weststander

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Aug 25, 2011
64,312
Withdean area
My first WC was 1970 and obviously England would win it. Until I saw them vs. Brazil.
One of the best best WC games of time but then realised we were actually 2nd best, if only by a sliver.
I’ve seen highlights of many 1970 games. Germany, Italy, Brazil and England all had great teams, what a WC.
 


Weststander

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Aug 25, 2011
64,312
Withdean area
But a lot of those teams, especially after 1982, were hyped ridiculously. I became bored and fed up with all the commentators slavering over distinctly average players. The modern team is great, but the cheats in the team spoil the achievements. Pele was class and wouldn't have dreamed of diving. I think they have maybe the worst offenders. I think they may end up playing Argentina, come on Mac!
Portugal and a few other teams always have that effect on me. 10 outfield cheats running the clock down when a goal up.

The difference with Brazil is that they simply love the ball in play, to play the game. It’s been their downfall more than once … 1982.

Zico, Eder, Socrates, Falcao, Junior, Cerezo are footballing gods to me.
 


hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
10,221
Kitbag in Dubai


Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,739
Eastbourne
Portugal and a few other teams always have that effect on me. 10 outfield cheats running the clock down when a goal up.

The difference with Brazil is that they simply love the ball in play, to play the game. It’s been their downfall more than once … 1982.

Zico, Eder, Socrates, Falcao, Junior, Cerezo are footballing gods to me.
Yes, Portugal are awful. Forgot them for a moment. And Brazil are a great team again.
 




WATFORD zero

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Jul 10, 2003
25,928
I’ve seen highlights of many 1970 games. Germany, Italy, Brazil and England all had great teams, what a WC.
You must watch the whole 90 mins of the England/Brazil match from 1970. It was the ultimate crossover between 'old skool' and the new 'skillful' game. I still wince when Franny Lee kicks the Brazil keeper in the face, and Brian 'if it moves, kick the f*** out of it' Labone. Terry Cooper and Alan Mullery weren't exactly shrinking violets either :lolol:
 


Weststander

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Aug 25, 2011
64,312
Withdean area
You must watch the whole 90 mins of the England/Brazil match from 1970. It was the ultimate crossover between 'old skool' and the new 'skillful' game. I still wince when Franny Lee kicks the Brazil keeper in the face, and Brian 'if it moves, kick the f*** out of it' Labone. Terry Cooper and Alan Mullery weren't exactly shrinking violets either :lolol:
I think that Brazil team also had a latent toughness, coming from the Favela, you’d expect that. My Dad always said they were kicked out of the 66 WC.

The final was interesting, the beauty of Brazil against the mass and dirty Catenaccio defence of Inter/AC. Thankfully beauty won.
 






GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,825
Gloucester
Oh dear.

Just Super Mac and Big Bob left now.
I love ‘em.

Too young to have seen the 1970 team, but 1982, 1994, 1998 and 2002, contained truly brilliant individuals.

I think bizarre hate is a really British thing, I could be wrong. Jealousy and hating superlatives, whether it be successful stars in these islands or across the globe. I wonder when it started? Did the average Brit on the building site or office in 1970 despise Tostao and Jairzinho, in 1974 Cruyff and Krol?

I call @Harry Wilson's tackle , I find his societal analysis interesting.
Back in the day we respected and admired Brazil - after all, they would have won four consecutive World Cups were it not for England in '66. Apart from from'58, teams didn't cross the Atlantic and win - in South America, South Americans won it - in Europe, European teams won it. The South Americans were dirty bastards though - not so much shitehousery as ABH - but that was Uruguay and Argentina, and club sides like Racing and Estudiantes, not Brazil.

1970, the final should have been Brazil v. England (the only team caable (on a good day) of beatng them - if only Banks had been able to play in the quarter finals, and Ramsey hadn't taken off Bobby Charlton to save him for the semis (which we then didn't reach) we might have had that final, and it would have been epic!

Cruyff and co. in '74? We were all for them (as we weren't there thanks to Tomaszewski) - firstly for beautiful football, and secondly because they were playing (West) Germany in the final!
 


Saunders

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2017
2,292
Brighton
I love ‘em.

Too young to have seen the 1970 team, but 1982, 1994, 1998 and 2002, contained truly brilliant individuals.

I think bizarre hate is a really British thing, I could be wrong. Jealousy and hating superlatives, whether it be successful stars in these islands or across the globe. I wonder when it started? Did the average Brit on the building site or office in 1970 despise Tostao and Jairzinho, in 1974 Cruyff and Krol?

I call @Harry Wilson's tackle , I find his societal analysis interesting.
Part of the problem is that you dont even mention the 60's when Brazil were truly great. I must admit I dearly loved watching Italy destroy them in 1982 because every commentator was spunking themselves every game when it was clear to me they had a flaw which Italy exploited. For a long period they were extremely dirty and completely ignored by the press in that they would dish it out but as soon as they got touched they would roll around for 5 minutes. A great example of this was when Flo for Norway was villified in the press/pundits for "cheating" for a pen against Brazil when the next day pictures of a fistull of shirt pulling occured seemingly this angle was impossible for the media to find the previous day. This overrating of Brazil continued for many years and not recognising other great national teams until after they won the WC the media bias has been really bad for a long time. However having said all that that this is a stunning great to watcch and very good Brazil side and for me it is between them and Argentina for this WC.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,825
Gloucester
You must watch the whole 90 mins of the England/Brazil match from 1970. It was the ultimate crossover between 'old skool' and the new 'skillful' game. I still wince when Franny Lee kicks the Brazil keeper in the face, and Brian 'if it moves, kick the f*** out of it' Labone. Terry Cooper and Alan Mullery weren't exactly shrinking violets either :lolol:
Bollocks!

It was a case of rumbustious tackles, shoulder charges, etc., against sneaky fouls, ankle breakers, eye-gouging and other South American shitehousery, both 'old skool' of their kind - which neither that England team or the Brazilian one were classic examples of. England v. Brazil 1970 was just a classic match between the two best teams in the competition, never dirty from either side.

The new 'skilful' stuff of which you speak basically arrived with Holland in 1974.
 




Marty___Mcfly

I see your wicked plan - I’m a junglist.
Sep 14, 2011
2,251
D7DB3523-DE55-4052-B1DD-BFA0EE726181.jpeg
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
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Jul 10, 2003
25,928
Bollocks!

It was a case of rumbustious tackles, shoulder charges, etc., against sneaky fouls, ankle breakers, eye-gouging and other South American shitehousery, both 'old skool' of their kind - which neither that England team or the Brazilian one were classic examples of. England v. Brazil 1970 was just a classic match between the two best teams in the competition, never dirty from either side.

The new 'skilful' stuff of which you speak basically arrived with Holland in 1974.
I'll put it down to the fact that you probably haven't watched that game for a while. After all we both know that we have a long history of taking a contradictory view over long running threads despite continual exponential evidence to the contrary :wink:
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,825
Gloucester
I'll put it down to the fact that you probably haven't watched that game for a while. After all we both know that we have a long history of taking a contradictory view over long running threads despite continual exponential evidence to the contrary :wink:
The difference between European and South American football was binary. Changes were afoot - the latin European clubs, particularly the Italians, were starting to take on 'old skool' South American, and the 'clever stuff' probably started with Celtic (yes, really) - Feyenord spotted how it was going and beat them at their own game in 1970, and the Dutch national team had fully taken it on board by '74.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,312
Withdean area
Part of the problem is that you dont even mention the 60's when Brazil were truly great. I must admit I dearly loved watching Italy destroy them in 1982 because every commentator was spunking themselves every game when it was clear to me they had a flaw which Italy exploited. For a long period they were extremely dirty and completely ignored by the press in that they would dish it out but as soon as they got touched they would roll around for 5 minutes. A great example of this was when Flo for Norway was villified in the press/pundits for "cheating" for a pen against Brazil when the next day pictures of a fistull of shirt pulling occured seemingly this angle was impossible for the media to find the previous day. This overrating of Brazil continued for many years and not recognising other great national teams until after they won the WC the media bias has been really bad for a long time. However having said all that that this is a stunning great to watcch and very good Brazil side and for me it is between them and Argentina for this WC.
Because I wasn’t born until the mid 60’s 😀.
 




Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
I thought Brazil were very disrespectful of Korea, I hope they come unstuck but it’s unlikely to be in the next game…come on the Argies or the Netherlands
 






Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,907
I thought Brazil were very disrespectful of Korea, I hope they come unstuck but it’s unlikely to be in the next game…come on the Argies or the Netherlands
Yeah, not sure all the samba dancing was a particularly good look for a team clearly out playing their opponents on every area of the field. A little humility wouldn’t have hurt.
 




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