Will Self - Is he right to hate hipsters?

[Stat Brother]

Hipsters - what's not to love:-

[tweet]514106534956388352[/tweet]

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ah right. So having a pop at a fat mockney TV chef and a group of ludicrous fops is not playing to the gallery with cheap shots? I'm pretty sure there's tumblr sites that beat Self to that gig years ago.

I think there is a middle ground here that Bold Seagull appears to have taken that Self is a brilliant satirist when writing novels but not so elsewhere. I'd go further and add that I think he's nothing more than a thinking man's Russell Brand when giving his opinions for money in the Fourth Estate. I do love your way of describing his writing though. It's a fantastic way of expressing his style. I feel the same way about Umberto Eco. The man is an unadulterated genius, who half the time I have no idea what he's writing about but I just feel privileged to hang on to his coat-tails as he waxes lyrical about yet another obscure subject that he's an expert in.

The two subjects in your first paragraph have indeed been done by tumblrs and done to death by Vice. However, those haven't been Self's only two articles of the last year. I think my point is that he at least states the bleedin' obvious articulately. Talking of which I am going to buy me some Umberto Eco, haven't read him but will on this recommendation.

 

[Mellotron]

He's written so much, yet says so little.

Basically, he doesn't like hipsters, yeah? Cos they think they're cool, yeah? And they're not cool, yeah?

 

[The Spanish]

My Idea of Fun is set in Saltdean, so for that reason alone I will always have a soft spot for him.

 

[Machiavelli]

Aside from Botton or Liddle who I've already mentioned? Martin Amis, Mark Steyn...off the top of my head. Love him or hate him, Peter Hitchens is an extremely versatile, prize-winning writer - have a look at what Peter Kellner says about him if you're in any doubt. There's plenty of hacks with as much range as Will Self

I just don't get your hero-worship of him as a journalist when he's reduced to trying to be controversial about hipsters when the internet has been doing a much better job of that for the last 5 years. Not exactly cutting-edge, is it?

I don't hero worship Self and at no point have I hero-worshipped him as a journalist -- I'm talking about him as a cultural figure, and said as much initially. Nor has this got anything to do with one article about hipsters (which I didn't read until after my initial comment) but, rather, his output that I'm aware of.

 

[Buzzer]

I don't hero worship Self

I beg to differ:

As to Will Self, he's a genius. Check out him on Orwell, which was one of the greatest assessments you'll come across....The only other cultural figure in the UK that has more invention than Will Self is Chris Morris.

at no point have I hero-worshipped him as a journalist

And again:

but can't think of any hack that matches his range -- enlighten us.

You regard him as a genius, the number 2 cultural figure in invention in the UK. Praise indeed. And he has the broadest range of any UK journalist ("hack"). Any UK journalist. That's some testimonial from you.

Nor has this got anything to do with one article about hipsters (which I didn't read until after my initial comment) but, rather, his output that I'm aware of.

That article is part of his output, it's the subject of this thread and you're the one who set the terms of who I was allowed to be comparing him to by asking for comparable 'hacks'. And it's as a hack, rather than as a novelist that he wrote this article about hipsters. I feel similarly about Umberto Eco as you do about Self, and I think my admiration is hero-worship. If you disagree then fair do's but I hope it's easy to see why I would think that when you chuck superlatives around like confetti when writing about Self.

 

[Machiavelli]

I beg to differ:





And again:


You regard him as a genius, the number 2 cultural figure in invention in the UK. Praise indeed. And he has the broadest range of any UK journalist ("hack"). Any UK journalist. That's some testimonial from you.



That article is part of his output, it's the subject of this thread and you're the one who set the terms of who I was allowed to be comparing him to by asking for comparable 'hacks'. And it's as a hack, rather than as a novelist that he wrote this article about hipsters. I feel similarly about Umberto Eco as you do about Self, and I think my admiration is hero-worship. If you disagree then fair do's but I hope it's easy to see why I would think that when you chuck superlatives around like confetti when writing about Self.

Does everyone else get similar treatment on here, or am I singled out?
You have an over-active imagination, and are fond of accusing me of all sorts of things (the current list, just off the top of my head, stands at: pomposity, historical determinism, class envy, hero-worship, 'chuck[ing] superlatives around like confetti'), and respond by the cut-and-paste treatment when it suits you -- although you're bright enough to recognise that cut-and-pasting entails decontextualisation.
The first quotation you've used from me above (which was the first I posted in this thread) quite clearly states that I'm considering Self as a cultural figure, and not as a hack. It also indicates a broadcast he made about Orwell. So, a broadcaster, a novelist, an academic, an essayist, and a hack -- that's quite some range in my book. I do think he's a genius, a term that I'm prone to overuse. If that's your point, then I stand guilty -- perhaps I'm historically determined to do so.
I'm wary of heroes, and restrict those (at present) to Aristotle, Machiavelli -- the clue is in the title -- and Gramsci, although Naomi Klein is pushing this lot hard (I haven't read her new book yet). Note that one of the hacks you've highlighted, Peter Hitchens -- who knows a thing or two about theory -- blames most of the problems of the contemporary world on Gramsci (and probably Machiavelli, too). But then again, Hitchens wants to return us to hero-worshipping the Bible. And I'd suggest that for that very reason, Self can only be better than Hitchens.

 

[Buzzer]

Crikey. Are you really that upset by my reply?

Of course I know you were not talking about him as a hack in the first post. That's why I separated your post, and then responded with posts that were deliberately in context. The first about hero-worshipping him generally and the second as a journalist.

'Decontextualisation'! Do you also refer to people being burglarised?

Cut and paste? I've just quoted you, you over-sensitive thing and separated it out a bit for clarity. I'm a bit non-plussed that this upsets you.

And what's so very wrong with a bit of hero-worship anyway? It's not a bad trait to have is it? Now cheer up and give us a smile [emoji8]

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]