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Who is getting it wrong?
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
I don't know. Too many questions for me to really blame anyone. I do have questions
Bloom and Burke
Where is it going wrong for them?
Is it a case of not doing a good job of identifying players, in that we seem to be trying to attract players who are too expensive for us, who are wanted by other clubs and so are able to drive a hard bargain. Do we need to look more towards less notable players (such as Danny Holla), those that are good but flying under the radar of most other clubs? Are our only options for good players those that might want too much and we're just hoping the newness of our ground, training facilities and recent play off finishes are enough to convince a player to drop his wages?
Is it a case of setting our upper limit too low? Too many fans seem to act as if raising our wage evaluation for a player or two will result in administration and doom. I think if the club are that close to administration we have bigger worries than how well we do in the league this season. I am confident the club will have budgeted appropriately, with a buffer between what we budget for and doom. Otherwise what happens if we lose a couple of players to long term injury or legal troubles? Are we being too tight in our efforts to get in line with FFP? Or is our budget/evaluation as generous as it can be, but as football in general moves towards an era of FFP there are going to be teething problems that we just have to go through for a season or two and once through it players and clubs will be more in tune with each other's budgets?
Sami Hyypia and his tactics
Admittedly, I did not enjoy the Sheff Wed game. I didn't like our lack of creativity, lack of fight, lack of width.
I don't know if the problem is the choice of tactics, or if it's simply that the players are still getting used to the system/deciding if they want to trust the new manager and his system before committing to it. That is, if we stick with it, will the players get better, will the games get more entertaining and we just need to be patient, or will this system just not work with us.
I look at the team selection and wonder if Sami is trying to force the clubs hand in the transfer market, or if there is some sense that he has to play the likes of Chicksen and Fenelon because there is an attitude of youth development at the club. Or, if it is simply a lack of options.
Ignoring the two recent signings, we have as options:
Keeper
Stockdale
Ankergren
Walton
Clearly, the selection here picks itself, and no one can question Sami's choice.
Defence
Bruno
Greer
Hughes
Dunk
Calderon
Chicksen
Maksimenko
Again, not sure people can have too much issue with selection. I know a few would love to see Dunk play, but Greer and Hughes are our most experienced, and will usually play if both fit, especially in a team struggling to click - you want that experience.
For full backs, you don't have much of a choice, either. Chicksen doesn't appear to be there yet, so you'd think relying on Calderon's experience out of position as the better option. Trying to fit the three of them in doesn't work yet.
Maksimenko is too far down the pecking order to take a risk on.
Midfield
Stephens - Injured
Crofts - currently banned, coming back from a long term injury
Agustien - Yet to show why several clubs have taken a chance on him despite his product
Forster-Caskey
Ince
LuaLua
March - injured
Toko
Buckley - wanted away so not committed to giving his best, now gone
With such options, it's not hard to see why some of the team selections occur. Though, why has Toko not being given a go? Is he not wanted by sami, or is he injured?
This is where I do question tactics. For me, LuaLua's strength is his speed. I see him as a player whose entire game is using his pace to get clear of a defender then blasting the ball goalward. With that as his game it seems a waste to have him play inside so much. It's too crowded to stretch out and get that speed, or room to do what he does.
Should a manager stick to what system he is most comfortable with or should he adapt for his players? If the squad is being rebuilt so that it contains the players he needs for his system, shouldn't he stick with that system now since some of the players will still be part of the team, and they need to get used to it, too?
Forward
O'Grady - still getting used to a new team
Mackail-Smith - coming back from a long term injury
Harris - a youth player
Fenelon - a slightly further along youth player
That looks like a pretty weak set of options. While CMS might be physically fit to play, is there some psychological block stopping him from playing to his full potential and is that why Sami sometimes plays Fenelon ahead of him?
Going through the squad like that makes it seem like Sami is very limited, and perhaps would struggle whatever system he uses.
So, without knowing the answers to those questions, I'm not sure if blame needs to go anywhere, and if it does where.
Bloom and Burke
Where is it going wrong for them?
Is it a case of not doing a good job of identifying players, in that we seem to be trying to attract players who are too expensive for us, who are wanted by other clubs and so are able to drive a hard bargain. Do we need to look more towards less notable players (such as Danny Holla), those that are good but flying under the radar of most other clubs? Are our only options for good players those that might want too much and we're just hoping the newness of our ground, training facilities and recent play off finishes are enough to convince a player to drop his wages?
Is it a case of setting our upper limit too low? Too many fans seem to act as if raising our wage evaluation for a player or two will result in administration and doom. I think if the club are that close to administration we have bigger worries than how well we do in the league this season. I am confident the club will have budgeted appropriately, with a buffer between what we budget for and doom. Otherwise what happens if we lose a couple of players to long term injury or legal troubles? Are we being too tight in our efforts to get in line with FFP? Or is our budget/evaluation as generous as it can be, but as football in general moves towards an era of FFP there are going to be teething problems that we just have to go through for a season or two and once through it players and clubs will be more in tune with each other's budgets?
Sami Hyypia and his tactics
Admittedly, I did not enjoy the Sheff Wed game. I didn't like our lack of creativity, lack of fight, lack of width.
I don't know if the problem is the choice of tactics, or if it's simply that the players are still getting used to the system/deciding if they want to trust the new manager and his system before committing to it. That is, if we stick with it, will the players get better, will the games get more entertaining and we just need to be patient, or will this system just not work with us.
I look at the team selection and wonder if Sami is trying to force the clubs hand in the transfer market, or if there is some sense that he has to play the likes of Chicksen and Fenelon because there is an attitude of youth development at the club. Or, if it is simply a lack of options.
Ignoring the two recent signings, we have as options:
Keeper
Stockdale
Ankergren
Walton
Clearly, the selection here picks itself, and no one can question Sami's choice.
Defence
Bruno
Greer
Hughes
Dunk
Calderon
Chicksen
Maksimenko
Again, not sure people can have too much issue with selection. I know a few would love to see Dunk play, but Greer and Hughes are our most experienced, and will usually play if both fit, especially in a team struggling to click - you want that experience.
For full backs, you don't have much of a choice, either. Chicksen doesn't appear to be there yet, so you'd think relying on Calderon's experience out of position as the better option. Trying to fit the three of them in doesn't work yet.
Maksimenko is too far down the pecking order to take a risk on.
Midfield
Stephens - Injured
Crofts - currently banned, coming back from a long term injury
Agustien - Yet to show why several clubs have taken a chance on him despite his product
Forster-Caskey
Ince
LuaLua
March - injured
Toko
Buckley - wanted away so not committed to giving his best, now gone
With such options, it's not hard to see why some of the team selections occur. Though, why has Toko not being given a go? Is he not wanted by sami, or is he injured?
This is where I do question tactics. For me, LuaLua's strength is his speed. I see him as a player whose entire game is using his pace to get clear of a defender then blasting the ball goalward. With that as his game it seems a waste to have him play inside so much. It's too crowded to stretch out and get that speed, or room to do what he does.
Should a manager stick to what system he is most comfortable with or should he adapt for his players? If the squad is being rebuilt so that it contains the players he needs for his system, shouldn't he stick with that system now since some of the players will still be part of the team, and they need to get used to it, too?
Forward
O'Grady - still getting used to a new team
Mackail-Smith - coming back from a long term injury
Harris - a youth player
Fenelon - a slightly further along youth player
That looks like a pretty weak set of options. While CMS might be physically fit to play, is there some psychological block stopping him from playing to his full potential and is that why Sami sometimes plays Fenelon ahead of him?
Going through the squad like that makes it seem like Sami is very limited, and perhaps would struggle whatever system he uses.
So, without knowing the answers to those questions, I'm not sure if blame needs to go anywhere, and if it does where.
Surport Local Team
Well-known member
- Jan 5, 2011
- 706
A change of system does take a while to bed in, remember when gus first joined
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
yes
and you are right, they have to learn quickly, and they need someone in the middle directing the traffic lets hope its HOLLA
London Irish
Well-known member
Indeed, Bloom took up the majority of his first programme notes to praise Burke in quite effusive terms. How that squares with some kind of conspiracy theory that he is livid behind the scenes, well, I vote bullshit.
ewe2
Well-known member
Every manager needs a consistent goalscorer.....we just do have one at the moment.
Surport Local Team
Well-known member
- Jan 5, 2011
- 706
Fingers crossed
And every Manager needs consistent fans...... We just don't have them at the moment
kevo
Well-known member
- Mar 8, 2008
- 9,108
The first, which has been the trend since Poyet left.
Looking at the squad we had in the 2012-13, the quality was amazing. A typical line-up in the second half of that season might have been: Kuz, Bridge, Upson, Greer, Bruno, David, Bridcutt, Orlandi, Buckley, Barnes, Ulloa - and a bench consisting of Vicente, LuaLua, Calderon etc. Crofts and CMS were also in the squad but out injured.
There has been a definite regression since then. This can only be explained by the offloading of quality players and the recruitment of poor (read: less expensive) replacements to save money.
On the second point, I think it's a tadge harsh to blame Hyypia after just three games. Most managers take a while to get it right and he doesn't have a lot to work with. Give him a chance.
Looking at the squad we had in the 2012-13, the quality was amazing. A typical line-up in the second half of that season might have been: Kuz, Bridge, Upson, Greer, Bruno, David, Bridcutt, Orlandi, Buckley, Barnes, Ulloa - and a bench consisting of Vicente, LuaLua, Calderon etc. Crofts and CMS were also in the squad but out injured.
There has been a definite regression since then. This can only be explained by the offloading of quality players and the recruitment of poor (read: less expensive) replacements to save money.
On the second point, I think it's a tadge harsh to blame Hyypia after just three games. Most managers take a while to get it right and he doesn't have a lot to work with. Give him a chance.
TSB
Captain Hindsight
Two games. TWO games.
We're a bit slow out the gate but I don't blame any of the management team for that.
Perhaps the Chairman...
We're a bit slow out the gate but I don't blame any of the management team for that.
Perhaps the Chairman...
drew
Drew
Not sure if it is intentional but you seem to imply that recruitment was down to Poyet? As for Vicente on the bench being typical, I don't recall that. Typically he was not even selected although subsequently suggesting he had been fit for the last four months of the season!
London Irish
Well-known member
This is common sense surely? Whether you liked or disliked Poyet, it's commonly acknowledged he put huge pressure on the board to fund his signings. I actually think that's the manager's job to do that, and the board's job to then make the judgment call.
kevo
Well-known member
- Mar 8, 2008
- 9,108
It wasn't intentional, but I don't think there's much doubt that he helped attract players to the club.
Just had a look at the stats for games in the second-half of that season.
In the 26 matches starting from Jan 1, he was included in the squad 19 times in total. He was in the starting line-up 6 times, and named as a sub 13 times (used 5, unused 8). So fairly typical for him to be on the bench.
B.W.
New member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 13,666
I could have voted 'Both', but I say give the manager the squad then judge him, so I voted 'Bloom/Burke' as the closest approximation to my thoughts on this. However, read on...
I also say (not for the first time) that the whole player recruitment strategy needs to be reviewed, since it is CLEARLY FAILING. A review because nobody can judge where the blame lies between Burke, his team, Bloom, Barber (who Bozza suspiciously omitted from the recruitment option), the infamous database, the scouting network, wages offered, fees offered, etc. until a thorough review is undertaken.
I also say (not for the first time) that the whole player recruitment strategy needs to be reviewed, since it is CLEARLY FAILING. A review because nobody can judge where the blame lies between Burke, his team, Bloom, Barber (who Bozza suspiciously omitted from the recruitment option), the infamous database, the scouting network, wages offered, fees offered, etc. until a thorough review is undertaken.
Precisely this. How on earth is any manager supposed to turn our current shower into anything resembling a top 6 side?
Poyet built a near as dammit Premier League side, and over the last two seasons everything's been sold or released. We're left with a few kids, some underwhelming signings and poor loans. Hardly Sammi's fault they're not playing like world beaters is it?
Even if he is crap he should have a fair crack of the whip, as things stand that's not the case.
For all this talk of ambition all I see is a selling club that can't attract quality. Perhaps Oscar had all the personal charisma of a serviceable goldfish but if recruiting players is still an issue then we may have to look a bit deeper. Perhaps it's not the fault of the manager and blame lies with the recruitment processes?
Worrying times.
D
Deleted User X18H
Guest
This is my take on it.
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...on-crucial-two-weeks-ahead-for-seagulls/33617
http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...on-crucial-two-weeks-ahead-for-seagulls/33617
It's Middlesbrough.
BensGrandad
New member
I dont agree I think it is a case of the players Gus signed were not capable of adjusting to play the Hyppia way so players are being brought in who it is thought are.
The Truth
Banned
It's the fans fault for deciding we're in a crisis. We could get promoted this season, who's fault will that be?
Monkey Man
Your support is not that great
Not really constructive to be playing the blame game after two matches, and with the transfer window still very much open ... and possibly some crucial loan players around the corner. I think I'll reserve judgement for a while.