West Ham and the Olympic Stadium

[Storer68]

What do you think Wembley is for then? And don't say it's just there as a home ground for England, because any fool can see that alone wouldn't pay for it.

Blimey, that one went past the FA

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

Tottenham Hotspur's proposal to demolish the Olympic Stadium is "outrageous", the chief executive of Newham Council has told BBC Sport.

The east London borough is a partner in West Ham United's rival bid to take over the £500m facility after the 2012 Games.
Their plan is to retain the running track and use the stadium for both football and athletics.

Spurs intend to build a new football stadium on the site while redeveloping the existing Crystal Palace arena for athletics, and the battle between the two proposals is intensifying.
Newham supremo Kim Bromley-Derry criticised the environmental and financial impact of the Spurs proposal.
"I think it's outrageous to be honest," he said.

Is it better to opt for the safer financial bet of Tottenham, which is privately funded, but which will see Britain and London lose face?
"The carbon footprint created by knocking down such a stadium and building a new one is equivalent to us running our stadium for 93 years.
"It's also a huge waste of public money. We want to put money into the local community, not take it out."

Spurs say they would demolish the stadium because the club feel the venue is not suitable for football, with seats being too far away from the action on the pitch.
However, Bromley-Derry insisted that under West Ham's plan, "no one will be sat further away from the pitch than at Wembley".

"The sight-lines for our stadium will exceed those there," he said. "We refute allegations that this will mean a worse spectator experience.

Tottenham, who have the backing of entertainment group AEG, will borrow around £200m to fund construction, while West Ham will use money from the sale of Upton Park, as well as £40m borrowed from the Treasury by the borough of Newham.

Bromley-Derry added: "We don't see this as a further drain on public money. We're lending to West Ham at commercial rates. It's a significant sum but we're not using any of our revenue budget.

"We've got guarantees for that funding, and we're not basing it on Premier League football. We're absolutely confident we'll get a return on the loan, even if West Ham are relegated. The business case stacks up."

West Ham's joint bid with Newham has the support of the world's biggest concert promoter, Live Nation, while the University of East London and Essex County Cricket Club are also on board.

The stadium would house an Olympic Museum and be used as the centrepiece of an anticipated bid for the World Athletics Championships in 2017.
Critics of Spurs' plan say knocking down the stadium would be a betrayal of the London bid's promise that the Games would provide an athletics legacy.
"Ours is a bid about legacy and community," said Bromley-Derry. "Football is key but it's also an opportunity for other sports.

"We're fulfilling the obligations made in London's 2012 bid book. Other bids will struggle to honour these promises. We tick all the legacy boxes. We're confident."
The Olympic Park Legacy Company (OPLC) is expected to make a decision on 28 January about who will take over the stadium.

Former Olympic javelin champion Tessa Sanderson, who sits on the OPLC, will be excluded from taking part in the vote because she also has a contract with Newham Council.
Bromley-Derry commented: "We ask people to declare interests and assumed it had been done, but it doesn't affect our chances and is not embarrassing to us."

BBC Sport - Spurs' Olympic Stadium plan outrageous - Newham chief

Glad to hear it!

 

[saafend_seagull]

Would be very pissed off if I was a West Ham and they got this stadium, they don't even fill Upton Park.

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

I think both Spurs' and the Hammers' proposals are severely lacking. Does one of them have to win or can they both be told to f*ck off?

 

[beorhthelm]

Does one of them have to win or can they both be told to f*ck
off?

then we are left with a great big white elephant that cant be used for anything but a couple of athletics meetings each year. they need one of these bids to take over the costs of running and maintence of the site.

 

[Simster]

I think both Spurs' and the Hammers' proposals are severely lacking. Does one of them have to win or can they both be told to f*ck off?

Are they? At the end of the day, they are putting forward proposals in their own interests. It's not their fault that nobody wants to watch athletics apart from the big events that will come round to this country once in a blue moon.

 

[sten_super]

I think both Spurs' and the Hammers' proposals are severely lacking. Does one of them have to win or can they both be told to f*ck off?

The person in charge can recommend 'None of the above'. In which case it is likely that the stadium reverts to a 20k capacity athletics ground (as in the original plans) with occasional use as a community centre, but with no clear indication as to who should run the community events. The benefits of installing tenants is that they have to manage all aspects of the stadium.

I think I've already pretty much nailed my colours to the mast but for me Spurs cannot take it over, at least not without a name change (Stratford Hotspur?) and losing a large portion of the identity of the club. That leaves West Ham as the 'least worst' option.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Must admit, I find this whole thing ridiculous. How this wasn't sorted out years ago (ie at the time of the bid) is absurd. The problems of the two different bids are very obvious and very predictable.

West Ham and Spurs are just acting out of self-interest, you can't blame them. The real blame lies with what London 2012 promised in the first place, they should never have committed 100 per cent to a permanent athletics stadium there, there should have been a clause that it could have been somewhere else. It seems like people were just 'hoping it would all turn out OK'.

If these remain the only two options on the table, it's going to have to be West Ham because of the IOC promise (despite Spurs bid being far more sensible and viable). And West Ham fans still won't be happy, because when it comes to it their traditional football-watching experience will be transformed into a much worse one.

(Edit) As an add to what Sten said above, presumably if Tottenham did get it, they would rename the club Spurs. That would be the only way to keep people happy.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Personally I think it make a lot of sense for West Ham. Redeveloping the East Stand would be costly and problematic, the OS provides an easy route to expansion. Regardless of which division they are in next season, it is where they are in 10 years time that should inform their forward planning. The location is superb, it is in the borough of Newham, there is a direct rail link to the Essex hinterland which is home to a large section of their support. It should also help to re-establish them in area which has probably been leaking fans to Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea over recent years. As for filling it, realistic pricing and community offers should help with that.

Given how bad they are at the moment I'm surprised anyone turns up to watch them at the moment, I think the OS would provide an opportunity for a fresh start for them. As for the track, flexible seating options are readily available and quite common in modern stadia so that problem could be overcome in time too.

The Spurs bid is nothing more than a spoiler designed to get concessions out of Haringey council and should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

 

[Zamora For England]

then we are left with a great big white elephant that cant be used for anything but a couple of athletics meetings each year. they need one of these bids to take over the costs of running and maintence of the site.

Not exactly - the original contingency plan for the OS was to reduce it from 80,000 to 25,000 once the games were over.

I don't see the need, however, for the OS and Crystal Palace Athletics Stadium to run at the same time. With Spurs, West Ham and Palace angling for one of the two, I can see one of them getting something, which would be a shame from a traditionalists point of view.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

So if Spurs redevelop the Olympic Stadium does this mean Crystal Palace become an athletics venue only ?

 

[sten_super]

So if Spurs redevelop the Olympic Stadium does this mean Crystal Palace become an athletics venue only ?

Yes; it looks like Spurs and Palace's development plans are mutually exclusive, which must be another thing to work in West Ham's favour.

 

[pasty]

I find it strange that out of the 2 clubs bidding for it, the majority of supporters of both clubs appear to be against the move.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I'd rather Crystal Palace takeover the NSC and the OS be downgraded to a smaller athletics arena.

West Ham and Spurs can kiss arse.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Apparently Pele has written to the IOC backing the Spurs bid.

Firstly, what the hell has it got to do with him and secondly, how much are they paying him?

 

[whitelion]

Tottenham and West Ham finalise 2012 stadium plans

Tottenham and West Ham will make final submissions on Friday in their bids to take over the 2012 Olympic Stadium.

The Premier League football clubs have already handed in detailed proposals to the Olympic Park Legacy Company (OPLC).

The supplementary information will be used by OPLC chief Andrew Altman to make a recommendation to the OPLC board ahead of a meeting on 28 January.

Tottenham plan to remove the athletics track if their bid is successful while West Ham have vowed to keep it.

Both clubs' plans have come in for criticism with the head of world athletics Lamine Diack telling BBC Sport that London will have told a "big lie" to get the Olympics if the main stadium is converted into a football ground without a running track.

Diack, who is also a member of the International Olympic Committee went on to suggest that Britain's chances of hosting future events would be severely compromised if the athletics track was scrapped.

UK reputation 'dead' without 2012 legacy
The International Association of Athletics Federations president later added: "While concerns have been raised about sightlines for football we should recall that football has often shared with other sports.

"The old Wembley Stadium had a track around the pitch which was not only used for athletics but for speedway and greyhound racing.

"In the history of Fifa World Cup and Uefa European Championships, matches have been played in multi-purpose arenas."

Three out of the last four Champions League finals have been held in Olympic Stadiums which have athletics tracks surrounding the pitch, with Athens, Moscow and Rome hosting in 2007, 08 and 09 respectively.

Part of Tottenham's plan involves the redevelopment of the athletics facility at Crystal Palace's National Sports Centre, leading Spurs non-executive director Sir Keith Mills to stress on BBC Radio Four's Today programme on Friday that their bid would therefore not leave London after 2012 without an athletics track.

Mills, who is also deputy chairman of the London Organising Committee for the Olympic Games (Locog), said: "Lamine Diack quite rightly wants to see the Olympic legacy left in London and both of the bids on the table provide an athletics legacy.

DAVID BOND'S BLOG

This stark image is what the London Olympic Stadium would look like if the original legacy promise to turn it into an athletics-only arena after the Games was seen through

"The issue here, and the one the OPLC will be looking at in the next 10 days, is what's going to provide the best long-term legacy for London and for the country. And that's all about which of the two bids is going to be economically viable in the long term.

"Someone has to pay for the next several decades for the stadium, and if West Ham have found a way to work that economically, the OPLC will look on that favourably. But I find that difficult to see."

Meanwhile, Crystal Palace football club unveiled plans earlier this week to move from Selhurst Park back to their original home at the NSC, a decision that could have an impact on Spurs' hopes of moving into a bigger stadium, although they have been given planning permission to redevelop their current White Hart Lane home.

Former British Olympic Association chairman Sir Craig Reedie and UK Athletics head coach Charles van Commenee have condemned Spurs' proposal to remove the running track, although former Tottenham chairman Lord Sugar says their plans for the Olympic Stadium and Crystal Palace make perfect sense.

"To try and run [the Olympic Stadium] as an athletics track and football stadium is technically impossible," he told BBC Radio 5 live.

"It will not give a good experience for football fans because of viewing angles, and basically it's a flawed concept.

What if West Ham are relegated this season? Half the seats would be empty and it would become a desolate graveyard

Tottenham boss Harry Redknapp
"Surely when there is the opportunity of having Crystal Palace completely redeveloped so it's available 365 days a year that's got to be a good thing and you've got to take your hat off to Tottenham to be thinking in that way."

West Ham's plan to retain the running track, has been described as "madness" and unworkable by former British Olympic Association chief executive Simon Clegg.
And Tottenham manager Harry Redknapp believes West Ham's path could lead to the venue becoming a "desolate graveyard".

Redknapp, who also managed the Hammers, from 1994-2001, wrote in his column in the Sun newspaper: "Try to mix football and athletics and you end up with a great big bowl of nothing.

"The windblown no man's land between a pitch and the stands can kill football.

"What if West Ham are relegated this season and then find themselves in a 60,000-capacity stadium in a Championship match?

"Can you imagine? Half the seats would be empty and it would become a desolate graveyard for a once-great club."

West Ham will be loaned £40m by Newham Council to help with their redevelopment plans if they are chosen as preferred tenants of the Olympic Stadium.

GORDON FARQUHAR'S BLOG
What is clear is that whichever way this falls, one party will very disappointed, possibly even prepared to mount a legal challenge

And in a statement, the Hammers said: "There are seats at Wembley stadium (regarded as having great views from every vantage point) which are further away from the pitch than any seat in our proposed stadium.

"The club will use state of the art pitch technology aided by excellent air flow to ensure the playing surface is of the highest standard required to compete on a global stage."

Hammers skipper Scott Parker, giving West Ham's bid a last-minute boost at a photo opportunity on Friday, said: "I think everything works out perfectly, geography-wise and to move the club forward.

"It will be exciting, you want to play in the best stadium and the Olympic Stadium will be that."

The OPLC is expected to decide on its preferred bidder after a board meeting scheduled for Friday, 28 January, although, with the Crystal Palace FC development, a final decision may not be made until the end of the financial year in March.

Its recommendation then has to be ratified by two government departments - the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, and the Department of Communities and Local Government - and the London Mayor's office.

Former Olympic javelin champion Tessa Sanderson will not be permitted to play any part in the decision due to a conflict of interest, it was revealed on Wednesday.

Sanderson is an OPLC board member but she also has a contract with Hammers' partner Newham Council.

However, she claimed on Friday there was no conflict of interest and said: "I hope it doesn't come to it but I am willing to take legal action if necessary.

"I have asked the OPLC chief executive to provide me with a full written explanation on his decision and despite my repeated requests this has not been forthcoming."

 

[Zamora For England]

Apparently Pele has written to the IOC backing the Spurs bid.

Firstly, what the hell has it got to do with him and secondly, how much are they paying him?

Pele has NOTHING to do with Spurs. He'll do anything if you pay him enough. Remember those viagra adverts...

 

[beorhthelm]

Not exactly - the original contingency plan for the OS was to reduce it from 80,000 to 25,000 once the games were over.

a contingency that as you notice, leaves british athletics with two large venues in the capital, when they struggle to utilise one. not much of a contingency then.

funny thing about the Spurs bid is that they seem to assume both Newham and Bromley are going to accept their plans. Newham i think already declared as opposed and Bromley im sure not happy to be used as a pawn in some distant football clubs plans.

 

[strings]

Olympic Stadium decision is put on hold by them spineless gobshites

More to follow...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/london_2012/9371972.stm

 

[tottenhamseagull]

Pele has NOTHING to do with Spurs. He'll do anything if you pay him enough. Remember those viagra adverts...

Is he actually impotent? Or was it all a bit of "easy cash"?