"we are staying up, say we are staying up..."

[Simster]

Hull now 1/6 to go down, whereas Newcastle are a best price 5/1:

http://bettingzone.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/relegation


Is it me, or does 5/1 appear a very decent price on Newcastle? For that to happen, Hull need to win at home to Man Utd with Newcastle failing to beat West Ham at home.

But after Arsenal's draw last night, Man Utd have nothing to play for as they will now finish 4th for sure. They might well be on the beach. The same could be said for West Ham, except a) the difference between 10th and 12th is £££ these days and I'm sure they'd rather say they finished in the top half. More crucially, b) the Sam Allardyce factor. He got hounded out at Newcastle despite getting results. No doubt about it, he'd love to send them down wouldn't he?

Clearly Hull are favourites for the drop, but IMO the value is with backing Newcastle to go down.

 

[Simster]

Even if that were the case, you say "more than likely".
Sunderland "will" have another crap season.

Since they last arrived in the Premier League for the 2007/08 season, their highest finish has been 10th.
They have only got above 40 points twice.
And have been runners up in the League Cup.

For 8 successive season the only celebration they have had is 'we've not been relegated'.

Whilst 13 teams in the top division are never going to win it, you are missing the point that these teams DO enhance their chances of trophies elsewhere. Aston Villa are going to the cup final. They will get to play in Europe. Wigan and Portsmouth have won the cup in recent seasons despite lower half finishes in the top division. And who is more likely to win the League or FA Cups next season - us or Palace? Some of our fans drool over the idea of Zamora seeing out his playing days for us. But that'll only happen if, say, Bournemouth don't want him.

These are the reasons those fans celebrate staying in the top division. That and the hope that they will only get better next season.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I'd also like to disagree with the basic premise of this thread. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong, or odd, about football fans CELEBRATING staying up. Just about my single best night supporting the Albion, was the 2-1 win at Bristol Rovers under Slade which lit a glimmer of hope, of avoiding relegation.

 

[BadFish]

I wish they'd give the top 5 teams their own league called the Premiership.

It would give all the other teams in that league finally something to be hopeful about.

Let them bugger off and start a european super league i say!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Whilst 13 teams in the top division are never going to win it, you are missing the point that these teams DO enhance their chances of trophies elsewhere. Aston Villa are going to the cup final. They will get to play in Europe. Wigan and Portsmouth have won the cup in recent seasons despite lower half finishes in the top division. And who is more likely to win the League or FA Cups next season - us or Palace? Some of our fans drool over the idea of Zamora seeing out his playing days for us. But that'll only happen if, say, Bournemouth don't want him.

These are the reasons those fans celebrate staying in the top division. That and the hope that they will only get better next season.

Villa only get a European place if they WIN the cup.

 

[JBizzle]

Being in the PL gives you the budget to afford better players.

You have the increased chance of a Wembley Cup Final, or even win.

You have a small chance of a Europa League campaign as Fulham did a few years ago.

You have much more TV coverage.

I can't see much not to like on balance.

Although those are all fair and accurate, I would say on point 1 that the bigger budget doesn't guarantee better players. With the exception of possibly Burnley and Leicester (perhaps) it was pretty clear that Sunderland, Newcastle, Villa, QPR and Hull are packed full of bang-average mercenaries. None of those squads would be certain of promotion back to the Prem following relegation.

Get promoted and you can look forward to the likes of Danny Graham, Steven Fletcher, Nikica Jelavic and other "star" names pitching up to score no goals and collect £30k p/w+.

 

[Stat Brother]

SB I'm sure you'd love to be a "Domestique" in the Tour de France for just once in your lifetime

as my Old Man always used to say "it's better to of had it,then lost it,than never having it at all"

Once definitely.
8 times, riding the tour without any possible chance of my team leader winning a jersey, wearing a jersey, or winning a stage, probably not.

You don't suppose they 'celebrated' reaching a Wembley cup final then?

I'm sure they did celebrate, they probably celebrated harder for that than they did any of their 7 (seven) wins that season.
But probably not as hard as they celebrated yet another 'Great Escape'.

 

[Stat Brother]

I'd also like to disagree with the basic premise of this thread. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong, or odd, about football fans CELEBRATING staying up. Just about my single best night supporting the Albion, was the 2-1 win at Bristol Rovers under Slade which lit a glimmer of hope, of avoiding relegation.

Every single season, for 8 years?

Starting the season with your best expectation being 'maybe this season we can guarantee safety in April'.

 

[Simster]

Villa only get a European place if they WIN the cup.

Ah yes, new rules. Thanks for reminding me.

But of course as I'm sure you'd agree, they wouldn't have been anywhere close to this situation if they had been in the Championship.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Every single season, for 8 years?

Starting the season with your best expectation being 'maybe this season we can guarantee safety in April'.

No, sorry. Your thread is nonsense. It's rubbish because that is absolutely NOT the pinnacle of their potential, and that is what their fans will aspire to. Sunderland will rightly look at Swansea and Southampton and think, that there is simply no reason at all why they can't do just as well, with the right appointments / recruitment / ethos. And they are right - Sunderland are easily as big a club as Saints, and a FAR bigger club than Swansea.

 

[Stat Brother]

Whilst 13 teams in the top division are never going to win it, you are missing the point that these teams DO enhance their chances of trophies elsewhere. Aston Villa are going to the cup final. They will get to play in Europe. Wigan and Portsmouth have won the cup in recent seasons despite lower half finishes in the top division. And who is more likely to win the League or FA Cups next season - us or Palace? Some of our fans drool over the idea of Zamora seeing out his playing days for us. But that'll only happen if, say, Bournemouth don't want him.

These are the reasons those fans celebrate staying in the top division. That and the hope that they will only get better next season.

True.
Although Wigan and Pompey aren't the greatest examples of why the Premier League is good for your club.

I do take your point, I was just a little narked by the phone-in fans, pleased with not going down.
Which in turn plays right into my 'I hate the Premier League' prejudices.

 

[Simster]

True.
Although Wigan and Pompey aren't the greatest examples of why the Premier League is good for your club.

I do take your point, I was just a little narked by the phone-in fans, pleased with not going down.
Which in turn plays right into my 'I hate the Premier League' prejudices.

The Premier League hasn't done Wigan any harm at all. Relegation is just part and parcel of football. They are down because they appointed Malky McKay, not for any other reason, and they will probably be back. Portsmouth is different, but my point was that they would never have attracted players like Defoe and Muntari without top flight football. (Although clearly that would have been a good thing in their case!)

Out of interest, I assume you'll be equally annoyed with the Championship when Rotherham fans are calling 6-0-6 to express delight at another season here at the end of next season?

 

[Stat Brother]

No, sorry. Your thread is nonsense. It's rubbish because that is absolutely NOT the pinnacle of their potential, and that is what their fans will aspire to. Sunderland will rightly look at Swansea and Southampton and think, that there is simply no reason at all why they can't do just as well, with the right appointments / recruitment / ethos. And they are right - Sunderland are easily as big a club as Saints, and a FAR bigger club than Swansea.

That makes even less sense than I'm making.

Sunderland have had 8 years to be bigger than Southampton.
Southampton were in administration and the third division while Sunderland were finishing 16th in the first division.

The fact that now, after all this time and more importantly MONEY, they aspire to be Southampton makes the whole thing even more of a joke than it was before.

 

[Stat Brother]

Out of interest, I assume you'll be equally annoyed with the Championship when Rotherham fans are calling 6-0-6 to express delight at another season here at the end of next season?

Nope as I said to Hans, that's part and parcel of football.

Ask me again in 2025 if they do it every season between now and then.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

With Bournemouth and Watford already guaranteeing two relegation places for next season, there'll only be one spot left to fill. Next season will be worse

It might not be too bad if Palace fill that last relegation spot

 

[hans kraay fan club]

That makes even less sense than I'm making.

Sunderland have had 8 years to be bigger than Southampton.
Southampton were in administration and the third division while Sunderland were finishing 16th in the first division.

The fact that now, after all this time and more importantly MONEY, they aspire to be Southampton makes the whole thing even more of a joke than it was before.

Sorry - you're the one not making sense. I'm not convinced that you actually understand football and football fans at all!

Everyone goes into a season with fresh hope. That's just how it is. And at the end of that season when they've been shit, they celebrate staying up, so that the NEXT season they'll still be in that league, for the year when it ALL COMES TOGETHER.

 

[Stat Brother]

Sorry - you're the one not making sense. I'm not convinced that you actually understand football and football fans at all!

Everyone goes into a season with fresh hope. That's just how it is. And at the end of that season when they've been shit, they celebrate staying up, so that the NEXT season they'll still be in that league, for the year when it ALL COMES TOGETHER.

Perfectly put.

But how optimistic a Sunderland fan do you have to be to think 2015/16 season 'is the one', after the last 8?

Assuming they're not silly with the money, I bet Burnley fans have a better season next year than Sunderland fans.
They certainly did 2 years ago, and they may well have enjoyed their stay in the Premier League more this season.

 

[Ernest]

I can't understand how the Premier League can sustain itself long term with so many teams now just looking to survive and the League full of also rans and meaningless matches. I wonder how long until the likes of Man U and Chelsea want the lions share of the TV money ?

 

[portlock seagull]

I can't understand how the Premier League can sustain itself long term with so many teams now just looking to survive and the League full of also rans and meaningless matches. I wonder how long until the likes of Man U and Chelsea want the lions share of the TV money ?

Agree.

The problem with the Premiership is largely because it killed hope in football. Even clubs like Liverpool have little or none unless they they're funded by the natural resources or government of an entire country which is the case with Chelsea, Man City etc.

I've conceded that football is several sports now and you need to follow a 'WINNING' club (e.g. Barcelona or Madrid; Chelsea, Man City or United in the UK) and/or your 'OTHER' team (everybody else basically!). Yes there are exceptions but these are almost freak results these days, including Liverpool and Arsenal or Spurs winning something. The days when 'everybody else' teams regularly appeared in cup finals and or challenged for titles passed a long time ago. And if they do, it could be said because 'WINNING' clubs just aren't bothered about those competitions anymore. Anyone who does do well from the smaller pond instantly gets their team stripped of talent within a season usually. The entire set up of football is flawed now, it's only sustained because of the ridiculous emotional investment it exudes - we're all helpless addicts - otherwise it would have gone bust a long time ago!

I'd love to see Anderlecht, PSV, Ajax, Bucharest, Malmo, Hamburg, Benfica etc regularly appearing in the later stages of the European Competitions again as they did for years. Now most of these can't compete with Bournmouth anymore.

 

[Del Fenner]

Every single season, for 8 years?

Starting the season with your best expectation being 'maybe this season we can guarantee safety in April'.

Worked for Coventry City for decades!