[Albion] Van Hecke or Webster?

[Farehamseagull]

The 3rd was on Lamptey imo, he got caught in two minds and made a bad decision. If he hadn’t have been drawn to the man who flicked it on and instead tracked the runner he could probably have dealt with the situation.

The third goal was a triple team cock up from Mitoma, Lamptey and Van Hecke. Mitoma game the ball away AGAIN (his error for the first goal too - he had a rare shocking night), Lamptey made a bad call, was then a bit weak in the challenge and then Van Hecke got his positioning and decision making wrong and ended up in no mans land.

And yet they still got a lot of luck for the ball to end up in the net. All 3 goals were freakish in different ways. On another night, none of those end up going in.

 

[aolstudios]

To be fair Webster was sold out vs West Ham, no Veltman and Milner who was dreadful. Webster was outstanding vs Wolves.

The common denominator (as well as Dunk) is Veltman.

Often is

 

[Badger Boy]

He lacks experience, because we chose to develop a Chelsea player for them last season instead of backing our own.

Last night was a big night for him as much as anyone, he'll learn a lot from it. There were plenty of games like that from Dunk for the first few years of his career so it's nothing really to worry about. It was very disappointing how the game went but failure is a bruise and not a tattoo (copyright Gary Neville).

 

[BLOCK F]

Agreed. He should also have taken off Fati and replaced him with a proper number 9 like Welbs far
Peak Webster is every bit as good as Dunk. Different qualities for sure, but when he's playing well he looks international class.

The problem with Webster is that he ALWAYS plays two or three utterly crap matches on his way back from a spell out of the team. Eventually he settles down and we remember how good he is. Unfortunately, in that West Ham game he took his expected crap performance to a new previously unseen level. I wonder if RDZ trusts him to get his form back?

I’m not sure RDZ is a fan of Webbo, unlike Potter who always had him in the team. The longer he is out of favour, the less likely he is to get that run of games that he needs. If he doesn’t get back in, I can see him departing for pastures new.

 

[Simster]

The third goal was a triple team cock up from Mitoma, Lamptey and Van Hecke. Mitoma game the ball away AGAIN (his error for the first goal too - he had a rare shocking night), Lamptey made a bad call, was then a bit weak in the challenge and then Van Hecke got his positioning and decision making wrong and ended up in no mans land.

And yet they still got a lot of luck for the ball to end up in the net. All 3 goals were freakish in different ways. On another night, none of those end up going in.

Mostly agree although I'm struggling to apportion much blame to Van Hecke for that one. After all, once Lamptey fell over, vH had to go to the ball to prevent the shot, while expecting Lamptey to get up and cover the unmarked striker he had just collided with. Lamptey was slow to realise the cover he needed to provide.

And you might want to check out Igor's positioning for the third too, which was absolutely shocking from the moment Mitoma gave the ball away with his schoolboy greedy bollocks for the 50th time.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

He lacks experience, because we chose to develop a Chelsea player for them last season instead of backing our own.

Last night was a big night for him as much as anyone, he'll learn a lot from it. There were plenty of games like that from Dunk for the first few years of his career so it's nothing really to worry about. It was very disappointing how the game went but failure is a bruise and not a tattoo (copyright Gary Neville).

Agree with this

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I’m not sure RDZ is a fan of Webbo, unlike Potter who always had him in the team. The longer he is out of favour, the less likely he is to get that run of games that he needs. If he doesn’t get back in, I can see him departing for pastures new.

quite.
But with Dunky already picking up injuries/needing rest, not sure we can afford not to use him.
alternatively we might see him captaining the team to a Carabao cup final.
All down to how RDZ sees the scale of rotation necessary.

 

[empire]

Webster all day long but need rotation last night was far to much for van hecke and our fanbase do go overboard on new players

 

[London Irish]

The third goal was a triple team cock up from Mitoma, Lamptey and Van Hecke. Mitoma game the ball away AGAIN (his error for the first goal too - he had a rare shocking night), Lamptey made a bad call, was then a bit weak in the challenge and then Van Hecke got his positioning and decision making wrong and ended up in no mans land.

And yet they still got a lot of luck for the ball to end up in the net. All 3 goals were freakish in different ways. On another night, none of those end up going in.

Yes but you have to say the first was a lovely training ground goal - RDZ will be spitting bricks to be out-thought like that. Our set pieces? Mostly rubbish all night

 

[London Irish]

Not bad really that this appears to be the first period we are missing Ben White. I'd stick with JPVH as his improvement curve will be the most notable tho I reckon Igor will get more games

 

[raymondo]

Seriously?

In general, his extreme lack of pace, is a big issue next to the lumbering JPVH- any ball over the top will have us on toast with these two playing together.

And specifically - the second goal is on him, dropping back early off the defensive line, and playing them all onside. The third goal he’s nowhere and gives up early, to point at others. And he could easily have seen red for the drag down, that saw him carded.

oh - and he missed a really simple headed chance in the first half

Fair enough. I agreed on his part in their 3rd goal. I hadn't noticed his failure in their second goal - my bad. Re the ball over the top, I think we are always vulnerable to that as none of our 4 centre backs are fast at turning and running - Dunk is the most savvy and was missed. When our full backs play high up we will always be vulnerable to that,which is why I think RDZ should have subbed on Veltman rather than Lamptey, because Velts too is more savvy.

 

[raymondo]

Yes but you have to say the first was a lovely training ground goal - RDZ will be spitting bricks to be out-thought like that. Our set pieces? Mostly rubbish all night

Yes, was a great goal, and even if Mitoma had picked him up he wouldn't have stopped that header IMO.

 

[Simster]

Fair enough. I agreed on his part in their 3rd goal. I hadn't noticed his failure in their second goal - my bad. Re the ball over the top, I think we are always vulnerable to that as none of our 4 centre backs are fast at turning and running - Dunk is the most savvy and was missed. When our full backs play high up we will always be vulnerable to that,which is why I think RDZ should have subbed on Veltman rather than Lamptey, because Velts too is more savvy.

Igor was so poor IMO, but it's early days. His passing second half was a massive improvement on the first and I do think it was a big ask to make his debut in that fairly makeshift defence.

RDZ now has some fairly big decisions on how to manage his centre backs. Dunk is the only one who walks into the XI if picking our strongest available side. You can perm JPvH, Igor and Webster for the other slot. I suspect RDZ is trying to groom Van Hecke as Dunk's understudy and eventual replacement, and in reality he is probably better or least no worse than Lewis Dunk was at his age (9 years ago). The problem is that Van Hecke doesn't have the passing range to get us forward like Dunk, and nor does he have the leadership quality at the back (which I assume RDZ was expecting from Milner).

Igor and Webster are similarly in direct competition and if recent performances are anything to go by, it's a weak link. Peak Webster would be a different matter, but the issue is that we don't seem to be able to rely on Peak Webster turning up. As for Igor, it's early days but he concerns me.

 

[raymondo]

Igor was so poor IMO, but it's early days. His passing second half was a massive improvement on the first and I do think it was a big ask to make his debut in that fairly makeshift defence.

RDZ now has some fairly big decisions on how to manage his centre backs. Dunk is the only one who walks into the XI if picking our strongest available side. You can perm JPvH, Igor and Webster for the other slot. I suspect RDZ is trying to groom Van Hecke as Dunk's understudy and eventual replacement, and in reality he is probably better or least no worse than Lewis Dunk was at his age (9 years ago). The problem is that Van Hecke doesn't have the passing range to get us forward like Dunk, and nor does he have the leadership quality at the back (which I assume RDZ was expecting from Milner).

Igor and Webster are similarly in direct competition and if recent performances are anything to go by, it's a weak link. Peak Webster would be a different matter, but the issue is that we don't seem to be able to rely on Peak Webster turning up. As for Igor, it's early days but he concerns me.

I agree with all of that . I guess I was impressed by Igor's relative ability in passing the ball out of defence, on his debut - the RDZ way can't be easy to learn. Maybe I overlooked his defensive frailty too much in the game though. He will hopefully come good.
Playing Milner at fullback didn't result, I think, in best use of his leadership experience to help the centrebacks.
In retrospect, probably would have been better to play Webster () and Veltman.

Will be interesting to see the next line up if Dunk is still out.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Igor was so poor IMO, but it's early days. His passing second half was a massive improvement on the first and I do think it was a big ask to make his debut in that fairly makeshift defence.

RDZ now has some fairly big decisions on how to manage his centre backs. Dunk is the only one who walks into the XI if picking our strongest available side. You can perm JPvH, Igor and Webster for the other slot. I suspect RDZ is trying to groom Van Hecke as Dunk's understudy and eventual replacement, and in reality he is probably better or least no worse than Lewis Dunk was at his age (9 years ago). The problem is that Van Hecke doesn't have the passing range to get us forward like Dunk, and nor does he have the leadership quality at the back (which I assume RDZ was expecting from Milner).

Igor and Webster are similarly in direct competition and if recent performances are anything to go by, it's a weak link. Peak Webster would be a different matter, but the issue is that we don't seem to be able to rely on Peak Webster turning up. As for Igor, it's early days but he concerns me.

We all know that Webster is only ever good after a run of games. RDZ simply HAS to trust him to get through a few tricky ones, to recapture his form. When he does, he is a very, very good PL defender.

 

[Machiavelli]

Seriously?

In general, his extreme lack of pace, is a big issue next to the lumbering JPVH- any ball over the top will have us on toast with these two playing together.

And specifically - the second goal is on him, dropping back early off the defensive line, and playing them all onside. The third goal he’s nowhere and gives up early, to point at others. And he could easily have seen red for the drag down, that saw him carded.

oh - and he missed a really simple headed chance in the first half

We can't judge a player on one performance, but my thoughts on Igor were:
-- his passing wasn't up to much, too slow in releasing the ball and about half of many passes to JPvH were behind him
-- in contrast to you, I think he has impressive pace once he's got going, it's the getting going bit that looks as though is the problem
JPvH had a bad game too, and his passing radar was way off. We can forgive them. And we have to accept there will be bad and below par performances (we've been getting somewhat ahead of ourselves of late IMO, and the reaction to last night follows from that).

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Last night we seemed to be playing with an average set of defenders who were undone by an average set of attackers. Sooner we sign (or develop) Dunk 2.0 the better. It's brilliant to be scoring goals, and it's been a long time coming, but it's great to stop them at the other end occasionally also

 

[GT49er]

I’m not sure RDZ is a fan of Webbo, unlike Potter who always had him in the team. The longer he is out of favour, the less likely he is to get that run of games that he needs. If he doesn’t get back in, I can see him departing for pastures new.

My view too. I think he's next on de Zerbi's 'to move on' list.

Just my gut feeling - absolutely no irrefutable evidence of any kind whatsoever!

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Seriously?

In general, his extreme lack of pace, is a big issue next to the lumbering JPVH- any ball over the top will have us on toast with these two playing together.

And specifically - the second goal is on him, dropping back early off the defensive line, and playing them all onside. The third goal he’s nowhere and gives up early, to point at others. And he could easily have seen red for the drag down, that saw him carded.

oh - and he missed a really simple headed chance in the first half

To a point.

Second was due to JPvH poor pass that led to the free-kick. I think you’re being a little harsh as those are really difficult to defend, and I’m afraid if you look at the actual ball in JPvH got his feet in a tangle.

The third, he wasn’t anywhere but no-one expected Mitoma to lose the ball so badly.
I think @Farehamseagull nailed it.

That header in the first half……. Just how? That was appalling…

But goodness me, as you say that was a slow defence.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We all know that Webster is only ever good after a run of games. RDZ simply HAS to trust him to get through a few tricky ones, to recapture his form. When he does, he is a very, very good PL defender.

Well yes, but history suggests he'll pick up another knock, miss 6 weeks and we'll have to start the slow crawl up to top form once more.

Van Hecke has started well enough to be second in the CB pecking order. Igor and Webby fighting it out for 3rd.