Unchain The Brighton Motorist

[Chicken Runner61]

Perhaps you can explain the nonsensical comment that 20mph 'only works when the traffic is flowing?!
I drove along the Kings Road coast road yesterday morning where the speed limit is 30mph and the traffic certainly wasn't 'flowing' then ~ so doe this mean that 30mph doesn't work either?!!

Its not that difficult is it - when you have a steady even flow the roads can cope and the traffic doesn't flood (think Somerset) when you get a high volume of traffic the roads find it difficult to cope so slowing it down (think not dredging) makes it flood (think Somerset again)

Thats unless you think the traffic is due to the high gay population in Brighton?

Have you ever seen old Shoreham / Sackville Junction when the traffic lights are down? Traffic flows through both ways no problem no congestion - mind you I 'll give you the cyclists can't get through!

 

[The Large One]

The greens have done a fantastic job of bringing small/family businesses to their knees.

Corrected a bit for you.

Utter gibberish.

North Laine is a thriving shopping centre with small independent / family-run businesses at its core. The turnover of shop spaces is no better or worse than before.

The Greens have done nothing in terms of changing road transport policy in the city centre, nor have they closed any city centre roads, not created any new contraflows / one ways systems / pedestrian-only streets.

Sorry, you're just making this up.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Yes but :
1) you got to spend time going to get it.
2) You got to pay, so its an added cost on the job which customers dont like paying for
3) when you got it, you still got to find a space new to the job.
Better off taking a job where access it a lot easier.

If i had no work sitting at home watching Jeremy Kyle then yes a i would do it, but all the time there is work to be had elsewhere with no restrictions traders are always going to take the option of not working in town.

Also a permit is okif you are working there all day but for an hour job its not worth spending 2 hrs getting a permit

 

[The Large One]

The notion of a car-free city centre won't work, of course. Pedestrianising vast swathes of the city centre (all of the Lanes, North Laine) etc. will have a detrimental effect on pretty much everything. But then, few people who are thinking straight are advocating it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Why would anyone need to drive in the city centre? Public transport is great and most things are in walking distance.

That's the crux, certainly as far as the private motorist is concerned. Its just stupid people jumping in a car for no good reason at all.

 

[The Large One]

Whilst the idea of a car-free city centre is attractive for a lot of people, it's not something that can be achieved by unilaterally declaring war on cars and their drivers as the Greens seem to have done (bus lanes, extortionate parking charges, 20mph speed limits to name three off the top of my head). To encourage people to leave their cars at home needs an integrated policy, which the Greens (or any other party) are unable to deliver because they don't control rail services and rail services are the key to getting people in and out of the city. An example, a while back I went to a gig at the Brighton Centre. My preferred way to get there would have been a walk to Eastbourne station, train over, walk to the Centre and back, train back to Eastbourne and taxi home. However, because I couldn't be sure that the gig would finish in time to make the last train, I took the car.
Another problem with using the train is that it costs too much; if I want to take mrs H for shopping and lunch, it costs over £20 just to get the train. I can drive over, park for 6 hours and drive back for £10 plus the cost of a gallon of fuel. I also have the convenience of being able to go and return when I want. I can also divert to other places (like stopping off in the Harveys shop for a bit of beer) and I can carry more.
If I could get two of us to Brighton and back for a tenner then I might think about using the trains but until then the car will be my transport of choice.

No-one has 'unilaterally declared war on cars'. It's a phrase used by people who have convinced themselves that this is what the Council intends to do, without realisingn

Since when was bringing in bus lanes 'declaring war on the motorist? And which bus lanes were brought in by these warmongers? Do 20mph speed limits stop people driving (another proposal not originally proposed by the Greens)? How is it an act of 'war'?

The rest of your point about integrated services is perfectly valid, and one I agree with. However, market forces have dictated that this is unlikely to happen.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Why would anyone need to drive in the city centre? Public transport is great and most things are in walking distance.

The one road I would like to see traffic reduced on is Kings Road eastbound. It seems to have got a lot worse over the last few years, especially on sunny days. I think that most of the traffic is caused by the car parks, so despite the cost there is clearly still a high demand for them.

Because unless you want a world where every high street is the same and all our children have to work for large corporations like Burger King JJB Asda Coop TK Max and Tescos we need small diverse shops spread across the city high streets and all those shops need cheap rents and rates and places nearby for people to park and take their goods home.

Most of those small shops now need a small car or van to deliver in order to compete with Amazon & Tesco direct so what do they do?


Not everyone has the time to swan down to the coffee shop or bars in the town most people are too busy trying to survive and the worst thing about having a vehicle in Brighton is finding somewhere to park or trying to get across it/in to it.

I don't think I've ever heard someone say "I've got nothing to do today and I've got all that spare fuel, I will go and drive round Brighton to use it up"

If everyone stayed at hope and socialized on the internet, watch tv and sit in their gardens no one would need a car - they could all not work and get paid £50 a week on benefits and be kept like rabbits while a few rich people enjoy the fruits of the world - Oh..................

 

[The Large One]

Sorry, I was hoping someone would fall into that trap.

When speed cameras were being put around the country, the most dangerous roads and trouble spots were supposed to be identified, and the cameras were supposed to slow motorists down and reduce accidents and serious injuries in those locations. So the most dangerous roads in Brighton & Hove were identified, and speed cameras put in place. Fast forward a few years, and all the roads with speed cameras keep their 30mph limits, and all the other roads get 20mph limits, so now we're supposed to believe that the opposite was true - that actually they were the safest roads after all, and the most dangerous roads were all those that they didn't put speed cameras on

It's a complete joke.

Good point, well missed.

All roads with 30mph cameras are considered 'aterial' roads or through roads where previously some would drive through at 40 or 50mph (they still do on my road); 30mph is considered safe enough on these particular roads.

The city centre and residential roads are the ones which have been reduced to 20mph.

The point about reducing speeds has NEVER been about catching people out - it's about getting people to slow down generally. There are still people who haven't cottoned on to that. Plus, it's hardly a Green initiative - one, the Tories on the council voted for it (Labour abstained because they feared taxi drivers would be beaten up), and two - it's not as though BHCC is the first council to introduce it.

 

[algie]

A Facebook group just popped up on my timeline, full of people ready to vote out the Greens because they want to drive everywhere they want and to park cheaply. Ultimately a magnet for morons.

Granted, the council need to sort out some swift and reasonable P&R systems, but that doesn't seem to be considered by the Average Joe. Why does someone feel they have the right to be part of the problem (they are the traffic).

Streams of cars enter Brighton with just one occupant or two at the very most.

I'd love to see a car free city centre.

Well it is an easy choice for you considering you don't drive.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Yes but :
1) you got to spend time going to get it.
2) You got to pay, so its an added cost on the job which customers dont like paying for
3) when you got it, you still got to find a space new to the job.
Better off taking a job where access it a lot easier.

If i had no work sitting at home watching Jeremy Kyle then yes a i would do it, but all the time there is work to be had elsewhere with no restrictions traders are always going to take the option of not working in town.

Fortunately for me most of the places i visit for my work in Brighton and Hove have parking areas which i can use for free and next to the job...the problems you encounter certainly influence what work i take on in both towns....but its not unique ..similar towns of size would probably have the same issues

 

[BN9 BHA]

You seriously turn away business because of parking?

Yes I do honestly, about 6 years ago I decided to only take on work from Woodingdean along the coast to Seaford, also work in Lewes and surrounding villages.
Most of Brighton's streets a permit or some sort of payment is required, some other areas like Hanover I was parking 3 streets away from the job, this is not ideal when carrying tools and materials from my van.
I now get more work as I can travel to jobs quicker and don't have to worry about getting a parking permit, finding a space or walking 3 streets.
20 years ago I could park on a single yellow line in most parts of Brighton and put a note in the windscreen informing a warden where I was working, as long as the van wasn't causing an obstruction this was fine.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Utter gibberish.

North Laine is a thriving shopping centre with small independent / family-run businesses at its core. The turnover of shop spaces is no better or worse than before.

The Greens have done nothing in terms of changing road transport policy in the city centre, nor have they closed any city centre roads, not created any new contraflows / one ways systems / pedestrian-only streets.

Sorry, you're just making this up.

I think if you spoke with many of those "thriving businesses" you will find they are not thriving many only last 1-2 years before going bust and closing down - Its true they get replaced.

The turnover of shop spaces is increasing - the number of commercial premises being developed in to housing is increasing.

North Laines is thriving due to visitors from outside Brighton, most brightonians don't "shop" there. In the recent bad weather most shops had a terrible time and if you saw how the streets emptied in the centre and North Laines when it rained you would see why.

A lot of the Brightonians who use North Laines seem to live in the Hanover Elm Grove area where they leave they cars parked for free all day while everyone else across has permits or meters. Funny that live 5/10 mins walk from the train station but can leave your car parked up all week for free?

Even the few Permits in that area seems to cover all the prime parking in Brighton including the Station but in Hove permits only seem to cover a few streets - funny that.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Well it is an easy choice for you considering you don't drive.

I drive, cycle, bus it and walk. I choose not to drive in to town as I don't want to add to the traffic and I'd rather find alternative methods.

 

[c0lz]

No-one has 'unilaterally declared war on cars'. It's a phrase used by people who have convinced themselves that this is what the Council intends to do, without realisingn

Since when was bringing in bus lanes 'declaring war on the motorist? And which bus lanes were brought in by these warmongers? Do 20mph speed limits stop people driving (another proposal not originally proposed by the Greens)? How is it an act of 'war'?

The rest of your point about integrated services is perfectly valid, and one I agree with. However, market forces have dictated that this is unlikely to happen.

They are doing every in their power to make it more of a inconvenient to drive around the city center in hoping that it will drive cars out and it is the greens who have embarked on further 20 mph zones.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Yes, i do too. It just too much hassle having to park away for your work place having to travel to and from the van each time you need something.

Agree, the jobs hard enough as it is, most jobs you need tools/ materials to hand.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

They are doing every in their power to make it more of a inconvenient to drive around the city center in hoping that it will drive cars out

Embrace the future

 

[BN9 BHA]

Yes but :
1) you got to spend time going to get it.
2) You got to pay, so its an added cost on the job which customers dont like paying for
3) when you got it, you still got to find a space new to the job.
Better off taking a job where access it a lot easier.

If i had no work sitting at home watching Jeremy Kyle then yes a i would do it, but all the time there is work to be had elsewhere with no restrictions traders are always going to take the option of not working in town.

All of the above is spot on

Someone told me they couldn't finish a job in a road in Central Brighton as all the permits for that road had been allocated that day.
Some roads are too narrow to pull up and drop off tools outside a job and then park elsewhere.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Agree, the jobs hard enough as it is, most jobs you need tools/ materials to hand.

Wouldn't you support the idea of discouraging cars from the city centre if it made it easier for tradesmen to park? Or discouraged single occupant Amex employees from driving in to work?

 

[BN9 BHA]

Actually you can apply for a traders permit by post and as they last 3 or 12 months it's hardly a hardship is it? And as they cost approx £50~ a month or £2.50 a day Monday to Friday that is not some sort of major expense that you seem to imply as well!!

Useful if all of your work is in Central Brighton & Hove, agree with you.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Wouldn't you support the idea of discouraging cars from the city centre if it made it easier for tradesmen to park? Or discouraged single occupant Amex employees from driving in to work?

Not sure it's for me to comment, I very rarely go to Brighton now, we have a very good train and bus service from Newhaven to Brighton.
I do agree with what you are saying though.