UKIP party conference

[Captain Sensible]

There are plenty of things we could do, that right wing parties (inc. Tories in that) wouldn't, that could massively help reduce national debt.

- Stop going to war
- Close corporate tax loopholes
- Do more to prevent use of offshore tax havens
- Increase tax for the richest 1%
- Legalise cannabis/end the war on drugs


Has UKIP got any of these things on their manifesto?
-

I agree with most of that apart from the tax havens. Tax havens have mostly been closed down. Now it's more of a holding company registered in a low tax charging nation that is the problem. The Americans still need to do more over Cayman Islands accounts but the days of Secret Swiss bank accounts is over.

NHS, Schools, Policing, tackling poor wages, closing the gap between the poorest and the wealthiest with reform of how and who social pay is distributed to to clamp down on abuse, Clean Streets, fair employment right to stop the erosion of employee contracts. Tax outsourcing companies and the companies using them to deter outsourcing.
We seem to have learnt nothing from the past. The reason for the economic crash was the large gap between the poor and richest in the USA. The poorest had so little money that they were offered cheap credit to buy houses and keep the us economy ticking along. Until the pot ran out.
We are going down that same road with the Tory policies (and that of ukip). The removal of the Uk from the EU will only add to this downward spiral as we are now back on that same path. Rich get richer, poor get poorer = economic crash.
It's not just 'lefties' saying this it's top economic proffessors and indeed the Bank of England. We are being warned that unless the imbalance on wages is addressed, we are heading for another disaster.
Big corporations that use these low paid worker tactics are the ones that we could recoup money from. Not only closing tax loop holes but by offering better rates of corporation tax to those employers using fair rates of pay and employing on full term contracts, those that don't out source. After all the money is better off in the pockets of the employees that are spending their cash than in the bank account of big corperate bosses that never spend it in this country.
The current national economic model will lead us into an other disaster in my opinion. The right in this country is only adding to that.

 

[beorhthelm]

There are plenty of things we could do, that right wing parties (inc. Tories in that) wouldn't, that could massively help reduce national debt.

- Stop going to war
- Close corporate tax loopholes
- Do more to prevent use of offshore tax havens
- Increase tax for the richest 1%
- Legalise cannabis/end the war on drugs

neither would left wing parties, as the last Labour government did none of this, expect apply a 50% income tax rate in the 11th hour.

 

[beorhthelm]

The richest 1,000 people in Britain increased their personal wealth by £69bn (sixty nine billion pounds) in 2013. How is it not fair?

thats not income, its not comparable to the previous year (as new people on the rich list came to the UK) and much of it is overseas.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

In 25 years there will really only be 2 classes the rich and the poor - the poor will just have varying degrees of poverty and servitude. There is a massive bun fight going on globally for resources, land and assets which the poor will be shut out from, but in the end the remainder of those assets and resources will be rented out to the poor and dependent on how hard you work and how subservient you are will determine how much of these "treats" you will be entitled to. In the same way faith healers don't work in hospitals the politicians we have today don't offer real solutions for life or even political or economic success they are different varieties of the same political movement that is enclosing the globe and desperately holding on in the hope they can survive the ultimate battle between rich and poor

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Immigration, immigration , immigration - by getting us of of the Eu they will solve everything - or so they tell us

Farage has said it, he still wants immigration but he wants to select who comes in, I think that sounds like a sensible idea to me. Better to have people coming in who can earn more and then don't require the need to fallback on our benefits system or in work benefits.

 

[yxee]

The richest 1,000 people in Britain increased their personal wealth by £69bn (sixty nine billion pounds) in 2013. How is it not fair?

Taking someone's money just because they have it isn't fair.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Farage has said it, he still wants immigration but he wants to select who comes in, I think that sounds like a sensible idea to me. Better to have people coming in who can earn more and then don't require the need to fallback on our benefits system or in work benefits.

So if farage and the right wing of the conservative party are so protective of our NHS and benefits system why do they seek to break it up and privatise it all?

All they want is your vote they don't actually want oiks like you taking their taxes either - if they told you what they had in store for you you wouldn't vote for them would you.

The one point about the whole benefits system and NHS that people forget is that its a pretty simple system - if you live in the uk you are entitled to benefits and welfare - its the fact that it's so good that every one is trying to get in here!

Ask yourself why does Britain have such a good welfare system and who benefits from it and who would like it destroyed and why?
If its so good why doesn't France or Germany copy it exactly the way it is here - because it's expensive ad you need to Charge the rich a lot of tax to operate it - and the rich don't need it because they rarely claim benefits or health services.

There are simple ways round the problem but that means leaving the Eu

All that needs to happen is that the uk could say that for say 7 years anyone coming here cannot claim benefits or treatment and the unwanted immigrants would disappear. But that can't happen if you are in the eu.

If you are in the eu you can't have a system for just the Brits you have to have it free for ANYONE entitled to live here which is why the right want out of the Eu - getting out of the eu will clear the way to dismantle the NHS and the benefits system - seeing as new labour is just the left wing of the conservatives there will be no one in the way once the eu is gone - in fact the only way that the right could ever get in in the uk was to move all political parties to the right generally so that the extreme right would become palatable to the naive central electorate that might stupidly vote for them.

It's nothing new - the nazis did the same thing but for a more darker reason and if you think thats absurd to connect that one ukip member said this week that "all Moseley got wrong was the uniforms - the British don't like uniforms"

With no left wing parties to argue for the poor the rich are going to have a field day in coming years.

 

[beorhthelm]

So if farage and the right wing of the conservative party are so protective of our NHS and benefits system why do they seek to break it up and privatise it all?

always curious by this old cheshnut, why does it matter so much whether a service is run privately or publically, doesnt the service itself matter the most?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

always curious by this old cheshnut, why does it matter so much whether a service is run privately or publically, doesnt the service itself matter the most?

I think the clue is in the word "service" there has to be angle for a private company to run a "service" that's essentially free at the point of service.

We have to privately pay to have our bins collected - that's called a service - sometimes they leave half the rubbish in the bin and we either end up paying for half the service we should have got or to complain till they collect the other half . If the people that collect the rubbish are not very good it doesn't make me feel any better if I can change to another equally poor company . The point being us that why do you imply that public workers are worse than private. At the end of the day it's down to each individual doing their job properly private or public.

Perhaps it's about education - and that's another thing the right wing will destroy - education for the poor!

The Tories since 79 have always sought to divide our nation on colour, creed and insidiously also on education wealth and health. A different service for every level of wealth - a financial apartheid that privatised industry can scam money from

 

[beorhthelm]

... The point being us that why do you imply that public workers are worse than private.

i didnt. why do you assume that public will be better? the delivery of service should be what we are concerned with, not the method of ownership of the provider.

as for education, the left wing policies of 50s-60s did more to harm eduction to the poor than any right wing policy could ever do.

 

[RexCathedra]

the delivery of service should be what we are concerned with, not the method of ownership of the provider.

You can't separate the two. Take it from someone who lives in the home of for-profit medicine, and for-profit higher education.

 

[yxee]

Indeed... and that's exactly what the rich elite, the wealthy 1%, are doing.

Please reconsider what "fairness" really is, when it comes to wealth.

Very elusive, but you were the one suggesting raising the tax rate by 1% - taking someone's money just because they're rich.

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

Hello again Buzzer.

Again, you have neglected (or refused?) to read everything I wrote. My analysis of right-wing voters isn't accusing them all of being thick - but obviously a significant proportion of them have little understanding of politics and rely on the Daily Mail or the tabloids for their information. Of course, others are just genuinely thick, such as defected BNP voters or the "march for England" lot. Like I said, I believe many advocates of right-wing politics are simply selfish ("I'm alright Jack, pull the ladder up") or scared ("communism has never worked!")

"My analysis of right-wing voters isn't accusing them all of being thick"

Thick, greedy or scared is how you define all right wingers judging by your earlier post, always a good plan to underestimate your opponents, god forbid any political organisation with a right wing tendency ever attracts a member with more intelligence than you ... (unlikely i grant you).
Worse still if UKIP turned out to be a Tory stalking horse. The fairly consistent 12-14% of the vote wouldn't count for anything at a general election and even if concentrated the 3-4 seats would be less help to the tories than the unionists.
For the sake of intelligent, generous and tolerant people such as yourself Mustafa I do hope that there isn't a pre election coalition between the tories and Ukip pitched well enough to retain two thirds of the UKIP vote without losing too much from the other end of the scale.
7-8% on the Tory vote would see them in even in the labour loaded system that is currently in place.

 

[beorhthelm]

You can't separate the two. Take it from someone who lives in the home of for-profit medicine, and for-profit higher education.

why not? you're talking about how provision is made available in the US, only to those that have paid up their insurance. i dont believe we should see this as all one way, or all the other. we can have private companies providing services to specification, with part of that spec they offer services to all free at the point of consumption. a third way if you will.

 

[RexCathedra]

why not? you're talking about how provision is made available in the US, only to those that have paid up their insurance. i dont believe we should see this as all one way, or all the other. we can have private companies providing services to specification, with part of that spec they offer services to all free at the point of consumption. a third way if you will.

You can't. Health care provision especially. The economics are not those of ordinary transactions.

 

[drew]

Taking someone's money just because they have it isn't fair.

So you don't believe in any form of taxation then?

 

[El Presidente]

a third way if you will.

Isn't that more commonly known as being bi-curious?

 

[pastafarian]

There are winners, but it's not everyone - its the 1%. Their tax should be closer to 80%, at least.

Im sure you are not referring to the 1% populist occupy movement in the USA,that would obviously be barmy and slightly mental,.Can you please give me a breakdown of the 1% in Britain you are referring to that should pay 80% tax.

a/how many people are in your 1% category ......1% of who or what exactly
b/what wealth do these 1% in Britain hold
c/how much tax do these 1% pay towards UK government

im only asking as you claim to know all the answers,hopefully you will feel like sharing,i hope you dont go into full loony socialist mode and refuse to answer/ignore the question because it doesnt fit the agenda

 

[pastafarian]

Everyone is a lefty deep down. I mean, who doesn't want a more equal, fairer society?

I have tried to understand for some time why people become right wing. I have narrowed it down to three reasons, only one required. Low intelligence (eg racism, BNP), greed (got money, want more), fear of change (dismiss the "radical" ideas of the left)

Everyone is a righty deep down,i mean who doesn't want a more equal, fairer society?
I have tried to understand for some time why people become left wing. I have narrowed it down to three reasons, only one required. Low intelligence(eg racism (see Rotherham) UAF,)greed (i want some of the rich peoples money) fear of change (dismiss the "radical" ideas of the right)

 

[drew]

Everyone is a righty deep down,i mean who doesn't want a more equal, fairer society?
I have tried to understand for some time why people become left wing. I have narrowed it down to three reasons, only one required. Low intelligence(eg racism (see Rotherham) UAF,)greed (i want some of the rich peoples money) fear of change (dismiss the "radical" ideas of the right)