Diego, I think Alfred has found himself in a dead end and is too proud to admit he's got it wrong. Best leave him alone methinks and let him crawl out when we've all gone.
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Ukip offers legal protection to Christians who oppose same-sex marriage
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
Diego, I think Alfred has found himself in a dead end and is too proud to admit he's got it wrong. Best leave him alone methinks and let him crawl out when we've all gone.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
'Methinks' ( a cringeworthy word used by bellends if ever there was one) I've stated my case, and there's nothing more to say, were going round in circles , if you want I can post a definition that Suits my argument, there you go : : deviating from the normal or average : unusual, exceptional <abnormal behavior>
— ab·nor·mal·ly \-mə-lē\ adverb
Creaky
Well-known member
Not being discriminated against based on a human trait over which you have no control is a basic human right, which you admitted yourself in you post at #62
If you really can't think of circumstances where someone's rights can be infringed or removed totally by someone not doing something then I give in! Hint:- Bus driver not opening the door to allow a black passenger on.
I cannot think of, and you haven't given me any hints
, what moral foundation there is that establishes anyone's right to treat someone differently based on their sexual orientation. If Christians are given the right in law to do so, (or more accurately have the duty not to removed), based on their beliefs supported by Old Testament texts then this opens up a whole new can of worms.Methinks you are seriously deluded.
If it helps, I believe alfredmizen is bushy under a new name.
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
Not being discriminated against based on a human trait over which you have no control is a basic human right, which you admitted yourself in you post at #62
If you really can't think of circumstances where someone's rights can be infringed or removed totally by someone not doing something then I give in! Hint:- Bus driver not opening the door to allow a black passenger on.
I cannot think of, and you haven't given me any hints
Like I said, nobody has a right to discriminate. It's not a right. The only time rights come into play is when you want to use force against someone. In this case the force is being used to try to prevent discrimination, but it's still force.
Don't mistake my statement about people having their rights naturally as saying that people have what you prescribe as rights. I am talking about actual rights. You are taking something which you believe about the way people should be treated (as I believe also) and you are converting that into what you call a "basic human right". Rights are not just things which we think people should have or be able to do etc.
There is no moral foundation that establishes anyone's right to treat someone differently based on their sexual orientation. I never said that, in fact I explicitly said, nobody has a right to discriminate. Because it's not a right. People have a right to live as they chose and do as they want, the boundaries to that being that they cannot use force against others. Refusing to make a cake for someone, whatever the reason, is not a use of force. To say that it is is to turn logic on it's head.
And for the record, if there were a law which forbade the Christian baker from making a cake for a homosexual couple, I would be equally outspoken against that.
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
Do you have a similar objection to seeing two women kiss, or are you one of those whose main objection to male homosexuality is that you can't **** over it?
well they're in the minority ................fact
regards
DR
Presumably you consider people with blond(e) hair to be abnormal, seeing as they're in the minority as well?
Cian
Well-known member
Or do, but feel oddly guilty afterwards.
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
we're talking sexuality and partnerships, things that make the world go aroundPresumably you consider people with blond(e) hair to be abnormal, seeing as they're in the minority as well?
regards
DR
You should go into politics.we're talking sexuality and partnerships, things that make the world go around
regards
DR
Pretty pink fairy
Banned
- Jan 30, 2008
- 31,981
Creaky
Well-known member
So if I understand you correctly you are saying that nobody has a right to discriminate but penalising them if they do discriminate is an infringement of their right to behave how they wish.
If that's not turning logic on its head I don't know what is!
Dandyman
In London village.
What if the "force" is depriving people of housing, employment, education, social services, access to goods and services and so on by treating them as second class citizens ?
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
You don't have a right to a house, or a job, or an education or a social service or any goods or any services. That's not what rights are.
If you have a right to a house, then someone with a house must give you a house. If you have a right to a job then an employer must give you a job. If you have a right to education then a teacher must teach you, etc. I want all people to have houses, jobs and an education. But if you want to call it a right, then anyone who has those things, or the means to provide them, must have an obligation to give them to you. And they don't.
This whole conversation is confused because of a misunderstanding about what rights are.
Dandyman
In London village.
Unless we are religious (and I am not) rights are what we are willing to assert they are. The above therefore are as much rights as anything you wish to assert is a right.