UK rules out military action in Iraq.

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Just take a look at the countries that are 90% + Muslim, they are always killing each other, can we be blamed for the killings in Yemen, Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc.
The same killings and in wars will start again in Afghanistan when the troops pull out. These people do not want peace, in fact they are loathe to drag their beliefs into the 21st century. Perhaps best if we keep out of it, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Ever since the time of Mohammed the Islamic states have been involved in an ideological struggle with everyone else...it's not just the West, the Chinese, the Russians and the military juntas of Asia and Indonesia are all engaged in vicious bloody struggles with their own Jihadis.

Islam is NOT a religion, it is a political system and way of life that does not sit well in any other system. If we let this lot in Syria and Iraq set up another Caliphate then it will end in global conflict.

Get in early, sort them out.

 

[somerset]

People have been 'slaughtering' each other, since time began, all over the planet, to decide that it only happens in the middle east is fairly ****ing ridiculous.
.

Nobody said that,... your over active paranoiac imagination again,.......filling in any perceived gaps with your anti western rhetoric at every turn,...

 

[symyjym]

Indeed, my point.....

Are you seriously saying that we can raise a country to the ground, destroy all their infrastructure, homes , hospitals and schools, drop bombs on innocent civilians, women and children. And simplistically “say it doesn’t matter it was going to happen anyway. “ then walk away with our hands in pockets, whistling to the sky as if the current situation in the Middle East has nothing to do with us.

We claim to be an advanced civilisation yet we do not recognise the age old saying of “lead by example”.

It is too easy to forget in the West that women could not vote, nor were they allowed education, forced into marriage and treated like slaves in the not too distant past.
Countries and civilasations have their own evolution timelines and transitions cannot happen overnight. We cannot bomb them into the future but we can bomb them back to the past. That we have done for sure instead of helping them to catch up.

 

[somerset]

Edit

So you sit in the camp that says NO to intervention whilst at the same time castigating the West for not helping more..... which one is it, please enlighten me.

 

[dingodan]

Ever since the time of Mohammed the Islamic states have been involved in an ideological struggle with everyone else...it's not just the West, the Chinese, the Russians and the military juntas of Asia and Indonesia are all engaged in vicious bloody struggles with their own Jihadis.

Islam is NOT a religion, it is a political system and way of life that does not sit well in any other system. If we let this lot in Syria and Iraq set up another Caliphate then it will end in global conflict.

Get in early, sort them out.

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. - Nietzsche

 

[daveinprague]

Nobody said that,... your over active paranoiac imagination again,.......filling in any perceived gaps with your anti western rhetoric at every turn,...

You have 'used' it as the basis of your fecking argument....constant war in the middle east, as though its somehow unique to the area.

Anti Western 'rhetoric' ? No... not at all, but thanks for the theatrical soundbite...but to be clear, its your opiinion that the wests actions in recent years in the area has had no influence on current events in Iraq?

 

[symyjym]

So you sit in the camp that says NO to intervention whilst at the same time castigating the West for not helping more..... which one is it, please enlighten me.

Does intervention mean destroy and kill in your dictionary? Or is there a democratic and productive version of the meaning?

The UN and weapons inspectors were intervening in Iraq and we overruled and disregarded them making the UN weaker on the world stage.

We basically dismissed and weakened the UN instead of respecting them, and if the West doesn’t want to take any notice of them, the knock on effect is that no one else will.

 

[somerset]

You have 'used' it as the basis of your fecking argument....constant war in the middle east, as though its somehow unique to the area.

Anti Western 'rhetoric' ? No... not at all, but thanks for the theatrical soundbite...but to be clear, its your opiinion that the wests actions in recent years in the area has had no influence on current events in Iraq?

can you return to the earlier posts in the feckn thread and decide who you want to argue with, I think you are mistaking me for someone else..... but of course you do have a record of knee jerk over reactions.

 

[daveinprague]

'Same old same old from Dave in Stag Party Land and Dingo from god knows where,.....Para is correct in that they have slaughtering each other since time began, just because there is wall to wall media coverage, and a more industrial edge to the weaponry used doesn't change that fact.

Yeah, knee-jerk haha youre the one naming me in your post. Im pretty sure, im addressing the right person.

 

[somerset]

'Same old same old from Dave in Stag Party Land and Dingo from god knows where,.....Para is correct in that they have slaughtering each other since time began, just because there is wall to wall media coverage, and a more industrial edge to the weaponry used doesn't change that fact.

Yeah, knee-jerk haha youre the one naming me in your post. Im pretty sure, im addressing the right person.

I just supported Paras view that this was nothing new, no assertion that this was unique, and as this discussion was about the middle east it seemed relevant that he mentioned it. I wasn't originally getting all reactionary about yours and others' view that it is all the fault of the west, I just supported his context statement.

 

[Footsoldier]

The only person/people to blame for all this unrest is Blair/Bush. I'd never really heard of Islam before 1997 now it's like a decease and on every front page news paper and main headline news. Someone should arrest Blair and try him for war crimes for making the world an unstable place for us who want to live in peace.

 

[martyn20]

Blair/Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld all equally responsible for the mess Iraq is in now. They had no reason and no right to invade in 2003, they know it now even if they didn't think it then.
Afghanistan (where there was a reason to invade but not to stay there beyond early gains) and Iraq (no reason to be there) led to the Arab Spring and Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc. They would not have happened without the constant presence of offensive western troops in the region

 

[melias shoes]

Nobody said that,... your over active paranoiac imagination again,.......filling in any perceived gaps with your anti western rhetoric at every turn,...

Spot on. He always adds he's own agenda and quotes matters that nobody has brought up.

 

[melias shoes]

Blair/Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld all equally responsible for the mess Iraq is in now. They had no reason and no right to invade in 2003, they know it now even if they didn't think it then.
Afghanistan (where there was a reason to invade but not to stay there beyond early gains) and Iraq (no reason to be there) led to the Arab Spring and Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc. They would not have happened without the constant presence of offensive western troops in the region

Correct. Couldn't have put it better.

 

[Dandyman]

Just take a look at the countries that are 90% + Muslim, they are always killing each other, can we be blamed for the killings in Yemen, Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc.
The same killings and in wars will start again in Afghanistan when the troops pull out. These people do not want peace, in fact they are loathe to drag their beliefs into the 21st century. Perhaps best if we keep out of it, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Syria and Iraq were both secular regimes, it's Western intervention that has unleashed the fundamentalists.

 

[somerset]

Syria and Iraq were both secular regimes, it's Western intervention that has unleashed the fundamentalists.

Secular?, oh I see, by that you mean the oppression and suppression of all non sunni groups in Iraq by Saddam and his minority support , a bit like apartheid South Africa.....Syria was/is secular for sure, but totalitarian in the extreme backed by the Russians of course, and the jihadis are pushing hard to change it, not a happy scenario.

Both were a mess long before any of the recent western political or military contribution.

 

[symyjym]

Secular?, oh I see, by that you mean the oppression and suppression of all non sunni groups in Iraq by Saddam and his minority support , a bit like apartheid South Africa.....Syria was/is secular for sure, but totalitarian in the extreme backed by the Russians of course, and the jihadis are pushing hard to change it, not a happy scenario.

Both were a mess long before any of the recent western political or military contribution.

Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz was a Christian so that's not a bad start for an Arab country.

 

[Soulman]

Syria and Iraq were both secular regimes, it's Western intervention that has unleashed the fundamentalists.

Really, so what about Somalia,Yemen, Nigeria and the troubles that the (let's call them extreme) fundamentalists cause in Europe, even India and as far away as Southern Thailand.......can we lay that at the door of the West as well......Wake Up.
http://world.time.com/2013/02/17/in-southern-thailand-16-dead-and-no-peace-in-sight/
http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com...ing-you-as-long-as-you-are-still-on-our-land/

 

[beorhthelm]

Secular?, oh I see, by that you mean the oppression and suppression of all non sunni groups in Iraq by Saddam and his minority support

apparently thats ok if its not directly religion based (even if it is implicitly), and its well known everyone in the middle east got along completly peacfully for hundreds of years before 2003, which actually created fundementalism. true.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Read the bible, do the history, its been going on for thousands of years in the middle east and we are not going to stop it. Where does Armageddon come from, that'll be Migidon and the ensuing slaughter that took place there. Sadam was no better or no worse than any of them, whoever has the upper hand will act exactly the same. I was there first time around and saw the slaughter on Basra Road, committed by the Americans, it serves no one in the west any purpose, forget the oil and forget the region.