Two referees

[cjwoolven]

BBC Sport - Tottenham prepared to go for 'special' player in January

old 'arry has said it's 'not an impossibility' to have two referees for a football game.

Good or bad?

 

[Storer 68]

Been tried before . Don't think that convinced anyone that it was an improvement

 

[albion534]

Europa has the refs behind the goal, and they do jack shit, they're scared of over ruling the match ref

On sky sports yesterday, I think they were showing handball, and there are 2 refs that have equal power, so if a ref blows up, that's final

There are always going to be human error with everything, and untill football starts using technology to help refs, they're always going to get stick

 

[Bold Seagull]

I was chatting to a hockey playing mate the other day, and their referees have many more tools to keep control of a game. Incidents such as Kaboul and Cahill being sent off recently thereby effectively changing the contest could be dealt with by a 'sin bin'. It works so well in other sports, whether hockey, rugby etc. I think this is why discipline is lost on a football pitch, a booking means very little to a player, and a red card is a severe punishment for say dissent etc.

Rather than additional refs, I wonder how 5mins in a sin bin for say dissent, a dive, or such, then 10mins for a bad or professional etc., then a full sending off for violent conduct, or if the player has already had a sin bin during the match.

Too many games ruined by referring decisions, but they don't really have many tools in which to control the modern day professional. Definitely think this would help take some of the pressure off the referee's and in turn hopefully enable them to make better decisions.

 

[Superseagull69]

Europa has the refs behind the goal, and they do jack shit, they're scared of over ruling the match ref

On sky sports yesterday, I think they were showing handball, and there are 2 refs that have equal power, so if a ref blows up, that's final

There are always going to be human error with everything, and untill football starts using technology to help refs, they're always going to get stick

In Ice hockey they have two refs & if one makes a decision the other thinks is wrong they discuss it & then decide whether it stands or not. So could work with a little tweeking

 

[ees complicated no?]

or just use video replays :S

 

[Bold Seagull]

In Ice hockey they have two refs & if one makes a decision the other thinks is wrong they discuss it & then decide whether it stands or not. So could work with a little tweeking

Why not just the 4th official who is already on duty a monitor so he can let the ref know if it looks an obvious mistake?

 

[fire&skill]

The two refs on the line are instructed not to make any hand signals like the ref and Lino. However, they are connected to the ref via radio link. What's the opposite of 'jack shit'?

 

[Superseagull69]

The two refs on the line are instructed not to make any hand signals like the ref and Lino. However, they are connected to the ref via radio link. What's the opposite of 'jack shit'?

If they are connected by radio link, why did it take the ref over 15 secs to rule out defoes goal the other week. Especially as you can clearly see the goal line official screaming his head off at the ref ?

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Europa has the refs behind the goal, and they do jack shit, they're scared of over ruling the match ref

On sky sports yesterday, I think they were showing handball, and there are 2 refs that have equal power, so if a ref blows up, that's final

There are always going to be human error with everything, and untill football starts using technology to help refs, they're always going to get stick

In answer to your question. In the United game v Basel the Additional Assistant Referee gave a goal...
My view:
Two referees would cause inconsistency between the two officials as to what one thinks constitutes a foul and one, may not.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

In answer to your question. In the United game v Basel the Additional Assistant Referee gave a goal...
My view:
Two referees would cause inconsistency between the two officials as to what one thinks constitutes a foul and one, may not.

Good point, well made!

Now get on and finish that essay - see you tomorrow!

 

[Brovion]

I think the 'two refs', one in each half, is an idea worth considering. Each ref gives the decisions in his half, although the other, like the linesmen, can give advice. Although there may be a discrepancy in how they both referee a game (one might let it flow whereas another might be more niggly) if the concept was totally flawed I'm sure hockey would have abandoned it by now.

The Sin Bin is also something I'm coming round to having previously been opposed. I'd like to see it trialed.

 

[Superseagull69]

I think the 'two refs', one in each half, is an idea worth considering. Each ref gives the decisions in his half, although the other, like the linesmen, can give advice. Although there may be a discrepancy in how they both referee a game (one might let it flow whereas another might be more niggly) if the concept was totally flawed I'm sure hockey would have abandoned it by now.The Sin Bin is also something I'm coming round to having previously been opposed. I'd like to see it trialed.

exactly my point earlier

 

[Acker79]

I think it would be interesting to see a premier league game played without officials participating (beyond watching the game as an official observer)

 

[Superphil]

......5mins in a sin bin for say dissent, a dive, or such, then 10mins for a bad or professional etc., .......

Are you effectively saying the outright cheating is acceptable so long as you are prepared to go in the sin bin?

I think you could stop cheating once and for all by issuing a 12 month ban for cheating (sometimes called diving, simulation, anticipating a tackle etc). Allow TV evidence to be used, a small panel of referees to review an aledged offence after a game, and if it is decided it is cheating the player is banned for 12 months, no ifs or buts. No club is going to pay a player who has been banned for 12 months, so players contracts could have it in the small print, even the most stupid player is not going to risk 12 months pay for cheating. Within a very small period of time cheating and diving would effectively become a thinkg of the past. OK, maybe one or two idiots to start with will end up being made examples of, so what, they are cheats.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Are you effectively saying the outright cheating is acceptable so long as you are prepared to go in the sin bin?

I think you could stop cheating once and for all by issuing a 12 month ban for cheating (sometimes called diving, simulation, anticipating a tackle etc). Allow TV evidence to be used, a small panel of referees to review an aledged offence after a game, and if it is decided it is cheating the player is banned for 12 months, no ifs or buts. No club is going to pay a player who has been banned for 12 months, so players contracts could have it in the small print, even the most stupid player is not going to risk 12 months pay for cheating. Within a very small period of time cheating and diving would effectively become a thinkg of the past. OK, maybe one or two idiots to start with will end up being made examples of, so what, they are cheats.

No, okay, I probably shouldn't have put diving in there, and I agree cheating should be dealt when by a panel.

 

[Acker79]

I think you could stop cheating once and for all by issuing a 12 month ban for cheating (sometimes called diving, simulation, anticipating a tackle etc). Allow TV evidence to be used, a small panel of referees to review an aledged offence after a game, and if it is decided it is cheating the player is banned for 12 months, no ifs or buts. No club is going to pay a player who has been banned for 12 months, so players contracts could have it in the small print, even the most stupid player is not going to risk 12 months pay for cheating. Within a very small period of time cheating and diving would effectively become a thinkg of the past. OK, maybe one or two idiots to start with will end up being made examples of, so what, they are cheats.

While I like the sentiment, I don't think it would be as easily workable. FIFA tell refs they can't book someone for simulation if there is any contact. Eduardo got his (four match?) ban overturned because there was contact, even though it was evident for the world to see it was a dive. I don't think anyone (bar some of the southampton fans) here would argue that Dan Harding didn't dive for a penalty in our game against the saints, he was booked, but he made sure there was contact. It's how a lot of dives occur - slightest contact and they go down.

If you get rid of the 'any contact = no punishment for simulation' then you open yourself up to a lot of mistakes and grey areas.

And I believe you would still get people diving - they will do it because the perception would be "why would you dive?" so often we see players who have a one on one go down in situations when you can't see any logic to it (Lambert for saint's second pen, for example), so panels will look at the incident, see contact, know that with such punishments diving would be a silly thing to do and not believe a player would dive so he gets away with it.

You can't ban someone for 12 months because you think they might have been cheating. You have to be very confident.

It used to be the case players would throw themselves to the floor. This evolved to throwing themselves to the floor and writhing in pain. This became making sure there was contact - hanging a leg out, waiting for the briefest touch, falling over and rolling in agony. More recently players have taken to going down and grabbing the ball as if it was so obvious a foul that the ref awarding the free kick is a formality. It forces the ref to make a decision and it is very very rarely given as a handball (Tottenham Man Utd anyone?).

Diving has evolved over time, and such punishment will just lead to a further evolution in it, making it harder to tell the difference, leading to more mistakes by refs, leading to more wrongly awarded yellow and red cards.

I definitely agree video replays should be used to highlight and punish divers, and it needs to be a hefty punishment (if the dive led to a goal from a penalty or whatever, any points won should be chalked off and awarded to opponents, any punishment (cards) that were awarded obviously should be rescinded), I just don't see how workable it is.