[Politics] Tory party annual conference Birmingham

[timbha]

Certainly doesn't. We are living longer, we are victims of our own poor health choices. The NHS needs funding, the mantra of it's inefficient is merely an excuse for keeping it below a level it should be financed at.

How much more money do you pour into the NHS? The advances in science and treatment means that conditions that would previously never have been treated are now considered routine, eg hip, knee and other replacements and have to be paid for. Twenty years ago someone would have looked forward to the next 20 years with a limp, pain and paracetamol. Nowadays they complain if a new knee isnt fitted within 3 months. This coupled with the self inflicted illnesses resulting from drug, alcohol, sugar, fast food, etc abuse means that however much money you pump into the NHS it will never be enough.

The other side of the coin is where does the money come from? Ok, we can blame the inefficient tax system, eg Facebook, Starbucks, Google, Airbnb, etc but not many of us are so outraged that we refuse to use them. Equally how many of us are happy to avoid tax by “paying by cash”?

 

[timbha]

What a total and undignified embarrassment this conference is. I’m ashamed to be associated with the U.K.

Anything in particular? Don’t be embarrassed or ashamed!!

 

[Ernest]

There's no-one there, there's no one there

[tweet]1046780108806270976[/tweet]

 

[BLOCK F]

What a total and undignified embarrassment this conference is. I’m ashamed to be associated with the U.K.

Fear not Tubs, many on here probably don't automatically associate you with the UK anyway.
Prost

 

[Gwylan]

This coupled with the self inflicted illnesses resulting from drug, alcohol, sugar, fast food, etc abuse means that however much money you pump into the NHS it will never be enough.

That's true enough but what we could do is do more to cut down on self-inflicted illnesses. There should be much bigger tax increases on sugar, alcohol and petrol to reduce some of the damage these cause - this will help pay for the NHS but, more importantly, will help modify our behaviour. Such measures do work: look at the way that smoking has reduced. In 1948, about 60% of the adult population smoked, some aggressive taxation and education programmes have cut that to the current figure of 15%.

Some more preventative work would help bring medical costs down.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

The other side of the coin is where does the money come from? Ok, we can blame the inefficient tax system, eg Facebook, Starbucks, Google, Airbnb, etc but not many of us are so outraged that we refuse to use them. Equally how many of us are happy to avoid tax by “paying by cash”?

This is precisely what is wrong with society. People don’t care unless it effects them directly. This “I’m alright Jack” attitude is classic Tory.

 

[Giraffe]

There's no-one there, there's no one there

[tweet]1046780108806270976[/tweet]

I watched a bit today. It does all seem very low key I have to agree. And that’s from someone who has voted conservative all my life and became a member recently. Problem the stories have is that until Brexit is fixed nothing else really matters. And most members are currently very anti the Chequers plan. The queues to see JRM far outweighed anything seen at the rest of the conference.

 

[timbha]

That's true enough but what we could do is do more to cut down on self-inflicted illnesses. There should be much bigger tax increases on sugar, alcohol and petrol to reduce some of the damage these cause - this will help pay for the NHS but, more importantly, will help modify our behaviour. Such measures do work: look at the way that smoking has reduced. In 1948, about 60% of the adult population smoked, some aggressive taxation and education programmes have cut that to the current figure of 15%.

Some more preventative work would help bring medical costs down.

This. Unfortunately smoking related illnesses will still be a big cost to the NHS long after the positive measures were introduced.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The queues to see JRM far outweighed anything seen at the rest of the conference.

To see him do what?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

To see him do what?

I bet his talk was entitled “Hunting the poor” or something of that ilk.

 

[Gwylan]

This. Unfortunately smoking related illnesses will still be a big cost to the NHS long after the positive measures were introduced.

About 25 years ago, I worked for the Health Education Authority and I remember we were a bit hamstrung by the inconvenient fact that the cost of treating smokers was more than met by the money raised by tobacco tax. I don't know if that's still the case - there are far fewer smokers these days - but my guess is that there's not a big difference.

However, it's not just about meeting costs, it's more about reducing smoking - that policy has worked really well.

 

[Giraffe]

Dominic Raab gave a decent speech. Agree with most of what he said. Sensible common sense stuff.

 

[timbha]

About 25 years ago, I worked for the Health Education Authority and I remember we were a bit hamstrung by the inconvenient fact that the cost of treating smokers was more than met by the money raised by tobacco tax. I don't know if that's still the case - there are far fewer smokers these days - but my guess is that there's not a big difference.

However, it's not just about meeting costs, it's more about reducing smoking - that policy has worked really well.

As an avid non smoker I have some sympathy with the smokers who are being heavily taxed for their addiction. What concerns me most is the “other” costs of other harmful behaviours such as drug and alcohol abuse that can result in violence, fear and damage, offences that can’t be attributed to (legal) smokers.

I was astonished to see the cost of a packet of fags.

 

[timbha]

Dominic Raab gave a decent speech. Agree with most of what he said. Sensible common sense stuff.

Just watched it. Impressed.

 

[BLOCK F]

This is precisely what is wrong with society. People don’t care unless it effects them directly. This “I’m alright Jack” attitude is classic Tory.

Bit of a sweeping statement, isn't it ,MR ?
There are an awful lot of caring individuals from both sides of the main political spectrum. I think the main disagreement boils down to how to best spend the dosh that is raised by taxation, rather than your 'I'm alright Jack' statement about a substantial proportion of the population in this country who vote Tory.

 

[Ernest]

To see him do what?

According to reports make racist comments about Libya

 

[beorhthelm]

Do we not need to get out of the mindset that the NHS is always inefficient?

You mention the continent, all of which have a higher healthcare spend per person than we do. Our issue is an unwillingness to fund the NHS, with the notion of 'inefficiency' driving an acceptance of underfunding.

certainly not always inefficient, and we beat many countries on many criteria or specific treatments. however know that it is relatively poor value of money for clinical outcomes when compared to others, and we know that higher spending countries do so with considerable private provision. it would seem to be evident that introducing alternatives to the state-only model improves the state provision, the efficiency and the health outcomes. or we could ignore the evidence and carry on arguing the politicised views of who does what for another generation. fact is no one for over a decade has even argued the case to "pay more", only spend more.

i just find it very odd how we compare our healthcare to fellow countries, pick one single metric and say "lets do that, that'll make it the same" without looking at all the other differences. look at all the differences to find out how they apparently do it better.

 

[portslade seagull]

This is precisely what is wrong with society. People don’t care unless it effects them directly. This “I’m alright Jack” attitude is classic Tory.

How much of more of your free money are you prepared to give in tax under a future labour government seeing as your griping about everyone else. I'd assume it would be at least 3/4 of what you have left after paying your bills seeing as your currently on a very high horse

 

[WATFORD zero]

Dominic Raab gave a decent speech. Agree with most of what he said. Sensible common sense stuff.

Assume he didn't mention Brexit then

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Bit of a sweeping statement, isn't it ,MR ?
There are an awful lot of caring individuals from both sides of the main political spectrum. I think the main disagreement boils down to how to best spend the dosh that is raised by taxation, rather than your 'I'm alright Jack' statement about a substantial proportion of the population in this country who vote Tory.

Perhaps, but can Tory voters really claim ignorance to a long list of policies that attack the most vulnerable in society? Either they aren’t paying close enough attention or they simply don’t care enough to change their voting intentions presumably because it doesn’t effect them.

For example...

Half of maternity units closed at some point last year
Teaching crisis
Nursing crisis
Policing crisis
Armed forces crisis
Wages in decline
Windrush
Private prison crisis
Private train companies defrauding the state
Private nhs providers defrauding the state
Private academies closing shop
Waiting lists for nhs services at record levels
A/E waiting times at record highs
People dying in hospital corridors
Social care crisis
Food bank useage at record high
A huge rise in child poverty
House building at lowest levels since 1920’s

It gets to a point where your either wilfully ignorant, too stubborn to change your voting intentions or just plain spiteful.