[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

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The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
Johnson claiming to have handed over all his relevant docs and WhatsApp messages to the cabinet.
A characteristic lie.

He has handed over some of the stuff and nothing before May 2021.

I imagine they will get away with it. Again.
 




KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
20,045
Wolsingham, County Durham
What I would like to know is why Government policy is being written on WhatsApp? Surely those discussions on WhatsApp would have resulted in policy directions that would have been documented in the standard governmental way, whatever that is? If they were not, then why not? Are WhatsApp messages now being treated like minutes of meetings?
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
What I would like to know is why Government policy is being written on WhatsApp? Surely those discussions on WhatsApp would have resulted in policy directions that would have been documented in the standard governmental way, whatever that is? If they were not, then why not? Are WhatsApp messages now being treated like minutes of meetings?
Quite. Their defence says that “personal messages are mixed in with official messages”

Why? A flagrant disregard of protocol and perhaps law?
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
26,228
When we were in the middle of the COVID pandemic, the Government said now is not the time to investigate, we need to concentrate on the Pandemic. If you wanted to question the Government's response to COVID, we even had a special area on NSC for you to post.

So the Government sets up an independent enquiry to investigate claims of wrongdoing throughout the COVID pandemic after it has ended.

The Independent enquiry requests evidence in order to fully investigate the claims of wrongdoing.

The Government takes their own independent enquiry to court to stop them getting the evidence needed to investigate the claims.

A lot of people are, and have always been very justifiably, extremely angry about what has happened, and I really am very sorry, but I think this country is getting exactly what the majority wanted and, as a result, deserves :shrug:
 
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The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
When we were in the middle of the COVID pandemic, the Government said now is not the time to investigate, we need to concentrate on the Pandemic

So the Government sets up an independent enquiry to investigate claims of wrongdoing throughout the COVID pandemic after it has ended.

The Independent enquiry requests evidence in order to fully investigate the claims of wrongdoing.

The Government takes their own independent enquiry to court to stop them getting the evidence needed to investigate the claims.

A lot of people are, and have always been very justifiably, extremely angry about what is happening, and I really am very sorry, but I think this country is getting exactly what the majority wanted and deserves :shrug:
I have no confidence in wrongs getting righted and the bad guys going down. None.
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
What I would like to know is why Government policy is being written on WhatsApp? Surely those discussions on WhatsApp would have resulted in policy directions that would have been documented in the standard governmental way, whatever that is? If they were not, then why not? Are WhatsApp messages now being treated like minutes of meetings?
WhatsApp is encrypted.
Phone companies will have copies of the messages but can they be de-encrypted?
 




The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
WhatsApp is encrypted.
Phone companies will have copies of the messages but can they be de-encrypted?
They can. WhatsApp has been compromised for years. That those messages can then be admissible into an inquiry is doubtful. Due to the way they would be de-encrypted. ie illegally.


Ultimately it is all ends up in the same spot; we know they’re up to their flabby necks in it and we are not allowed to prove it.

The Tory’s have been thriving on variations of that story for decades.
 




A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
18,495
Deepest, darkest Sussex
The thread from George Grylls contains questions submitted to Johnson as part of the inquiry. This one stands out.

 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
They can. WhatsApp has been compromised for years. That those messages can then be admissible into an inquiry is doubtful. Due to the way they would be de-encrypted. ie illegally.


Ultimately it is all ends up in the same spot; we know they’re up to their flabby necks in it and we are not allowed to prove it.

The Tory’s have been thriving on variations of that story for decades.
I would love to see Baroness Hallet actually insist on prosecutions for withholding evidence. Those who have worked in the judiciary say she is capable of it, like Lady Hale before her. 🕷️
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
I would love to see Baroness Hallet actually insist on prosecutions for withholding evidence. Those who have worked in the judiciary say she is capable of it, like Lady Hale before her. 🕷️
Agreed.
Something has got to bring this government crashing down.

Although I suspect they’ll all slink off to a comfortable retirement and no significant repercussions.
 




The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
My guess is they would much rather be prosecuted for withholding evidence than have whatever is in those messages made public.

They can keep denying they did anything wrong and claim miscarriage of justice as long as those messages stay hidden.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,961
I wonder how many people have destroyed their phones? There again, the phone companies still have the data.
" End to end " encryption TB according to WhatsApp. That's its major selling point but, if someone, somewhere could hack it....
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,961
My guess is they would much rather be prosecuted for withholding evidence than have whatever is in those messages made public.

They can keep denying they did anything wrong and claim miscarriage of justice as long as those messages stay hidden.
Just when you think that a government could not slip any lower, they find a way to do so. Incredible that the people that are supposedly benevolently running the country for the good of its people are running it for their shady friends, financial backers and themselves. The complete evidence needs to be laid before the enquiry or the King should dissolve Parliament.
 




The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
" End to end " encryption TB according to WhatsApp. That's its major selling point but, if someone, somewhere could hack it....
It would be lovely to see those messages serialised in a newspaper over a few months and perhaps some more when election time comes around.

Mr. Cummings? Are you free?!
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,793
West is BEST
Just when you think that a government could not slip any lower, they find a way to do so. Incredible that the people that are supposedly benevolently running the country for the good of its people are running it for their shady friends, financial backers and themselves. The complete evidence needs to be laid before the enquiry or the King should dissolve Parliament.
I imagine the thinking is keep those messages hidden whatever the cost.

Okay so they go to court, they might win. If not, they are no worse off and the public has footed the defence bill so, who cares! Win/win.

Either way, the messages stay hidden.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,454
What I would like to know is why Government policy is being written on WhatsApp? Surely those discussions on WhatsApp would have resulted in policy directions that would have been documented in the standard governmental way, whatever that is? If they were not, then why not? Are WhatsApp messages now being treated like minutes of meetings?
seems highly unlikely policy or any official decision are decided in Whatsapp, as you say it'll be the disucssions around them. bit like phone calls and chats in the corridor, but committed to text so available. pity the poor sods that will have to trawl through inane ramblings of politicans, low signal to noise and many contradictions with minuted meetings.
 






vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,961
I bet O2 Westminster have hit their phone sales target this week.
Could also envisage a busy week for drainage engineers recovering phones that have slipped out of pockets and down toilets.
 




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