Too Socialist or too Centre Left?

[Lincoln Imp]

I refer you to the first article the Telegraph posted on Friday at 610am, arguing for the end of the NHS and a U.S. insurance system instead.

Don't say we didn't warn you - it's coming when they have you lot softened up enough

My god, someone who thinks the Daily Telegraph decides Tory party policy. What sort of witless parallel universe do some people live in?
Signed, non Tory voter.

 

[RexCathedra]

My god, someone who thinks the Daily Telegraph decides Tory party policy. What sort of witless parallel universe do some people live in?
Signed, non Tory voter.

It doesn't dictate Tory policy -- but it does tell you where Tory policy will be ten years from now.

 

[GT49er]

By the way,if you are so tolerant and compassionate,why is it that you will always despise The Tory Party?

Tolerance and compassion doesn't have to be universal - some things for some people will be intolerable. So, just to see how tolerant and compassionate you are, how tolerant and compassionate are about the following?
* IS
* Fox hunting
* UKIP
* The BNP
* The Nazis
* Travellers
* Ed Milliband
* The Labour Party
* Homophobes.

Well, anything there that strikes an intolerant and uncompassionate nerve?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

It doesn't dictate Tory policy -- but it does tell you where Tory policy will be ten years from now.

You just made that up.

 

[jimbob5]

The issue not mentioned in this thread is the massive collapse of the libdems...in particular key seats that were lib dem were heavily targeted and won by the conservatives. The libdems lost their voice by being part of the coalition, they lost their younger voters because of their actions in the first 2 years and lost many of the central tories because of the threat of the labour SNP coalition.
All of the talk of labour and whether they should be move to the left or centre ignores the fact that labour did not lose a lot of seats to the conservatives, they lost seats to the SNP and the conservatives gained lib dem seats from more central voters. Labour will always have key heartlands. It is the massive reduction in seats of the third party that has given the conservatives gains.
If labour are more and more irrelevant to much of the population, especially in the south of the country then I would expect the lib dems to win far more votes at the next election, particularly as they will be in a position to fight against the government, which they couldn't do as part of it.
I felt that the coalition did help keep the government anchored to the centre, under pressure from ukip and the right of the conservative party. I am concerned that without the coalition and the opposition now in disarray there could be real risk to the environment (fracking, reduced investment in renewable energy, deregulation of legislation), society (with less of a focus on the distribution of wealth) and human rights (in particular the removal of the human rights act) that will cause the people of this country long term harm.
As for labour, I can't see how they will ever be able to gain seats they need in England whilst also gaining the seats they need in Scotland to gain a majority without the conservatives really screwing people over in the next 5 years to unite the population in getting them out as the aim. Much will depend on the economy, which can't continue to be based on a policy inflatted housing bubble for another 5 years...

Tories voters rallied in the marginals as they often do. Whatever happened to all the ex Lib Dem voters, obviously not enough of them switched to Labour where it mattered. Even though UKIP got loads of votes, they had pretty no adverse effect on the Tory success as feared.
Were Labour too left? I don't really think so. They might have got a FEW more votes from peeps who otherwise voted Tory. If they went too far Right they might as well call themselves Tory and of course they rightly wanted to distance themselves from the New Labour legacy. New Labour is associated with Blair, Brown, Campbell, Straw and a whole host of arrogant and complacent people such as, yes David Milliband, Iraq war, expenses fiddling and, although not their fault, the banking crises.

 

[jimbob5]

Labour will struggle to get back into power until they taken a long hard look at their party and they learn from previous mistakes and put a clear agenda foward. If the majority f their supporters on here are anything to go by it could be s long time

To be fair. They did learn from previous mistakes but the voters weren't having it. Plus the fact the Tories were offering some goodies.

 

[Hampster Gull]

If all the Tories weighing in on this thread believed any of the guff they are saying, they wouldn't be so determined to turn Labour into Tory party lite - you would be confident in letting the British people have a genuine choice.

But every Tory knows they only win by a hysterical press fear and scare campaign, not a genuine debate on policy alternatives.

You know that approach won't always work - and a Labour Party promoting genuine change will be ready for that time

Rubbish. I have no particular interest in what Labour do and i have no determination to turn them into anything. They will be what they will be. I am only interested in the views on this issue of whether people thought Labour were too leftcentre or too far left. Simple question. I take it from your response you think the media lost it for Labour? I think this is deluded but good luck next time if you run the same policies, the only way back in will be tory failure which is possible

 

[jimbob5]

Rubbish. I have no particular interest in what Labour do and i have no determination to turn them into anything. They will be what they will be. I am only interested in the views on this issue of whether people thought Labour were too leftcentre or too far left. Simple question. I take it from your response you think the media lost it for Labour? I think this is deluded but good luck next time if you run the same policies, the only way back in will be tory failure which is possible

Tory failure is VERY possible whether you love em or loath em!

 

[Hampster Gull]

Come off it Irish, the Labour Party are surely the champions of fear and scare tactics, telling everyone that the Tories will abolish the NHS, for example.

From some of the postings om here i half expect the lights to be turned off Monday

 

[RexCathedra]

You just made that up.

We'll know in ten years, won't we?

Having watched the Tories gone a-whoring after the US model of funding post-secondary education, I have every expectation they will do the same with health care provision.

The love-children of Maggie Thatcher and Milton Friedman really won't be able to help themselves...

 

[Buzzer]

We'll know in ten years, won't we?

Having watched the Tories gone a-whoring after the US model of funding post-secondary education, I have every expectation they will do the same with health care provision.

The love-children of Maggie Thatcher and Milton Friedman really won't be able to help themselves...

Tell me, how's the grand socialist experiment working out for the Venezuelans?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Tory failure is VERY possible whether you love em or loath em!

I would say inevitable (like any political Party in power in a democracy) just a mtter of time

 

[Higham Seagull Army]

Looking forward to the (shy Tory voters ) reaction to charges for doctors appointments and insurance clearance before that operation they were waiting for .
A lurch to the left from Labour ( Andy Burnham ) will have the same effect votes wise as Michael Foot .

I predict a riot ....or two or three.....

 

[Hampster Gull]

I refer you to the first article the Telegraph posted on Friday at 610am, arguing for the end of the NHS and a U.S. insurance system instead.

Don't say we didn't warn you - it's coming when they have you lot softened up enough

Have just read the article. Its a comment article by a reporter, not an editorial comment. It is an individual having a view. There are plenty on here with views.

Importantly though the point he makes is not the one you says he does.

He actually states that the NHS is a more socially desirable model that the US insurance one. I know that doesn't fit the point you were trying to make but i thought it appropriate to be factually accurate.

What he argues is not adopting the US model but the social health insurance systems adopted in Germany (model society...), Netherlands and Switzerland amoungst others. He believes they are a better solution in terms of outcomes, satisfaction and ability to raise funds.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Looking forward to the (shy Tory voters ) reaction to charges for doctors appointments and insurance clearance before that operation they were waiting for .
A lurch to the left from Labour ( Andy Burnham ) will have the same effect votes wise as Michael Foot .

I predict a riot ....or two or three.....

Massive demo in London at present with a "**** The Tories" theme

 

[Dandyman]

Tell me, how's the grand socialist experiment working out for the Venezuelans?

Pretty well IMO - significant increases in the well being of ordinary people and sufficient solidarity to have survived an attempted fascist coup by the usual suspects.

 

[Soulman]

Pretty well IMO - significant increases in the well being of ordinary people and sufficient solidarity to have survived an attempted fascist coup by the usual suspects.

Enjoying that lemon.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The issue not mentioned in this thread is the massive collapse of the libdems...in particular key seats that were lib dem were heavily targeted and won by the conservatives. The libdems lost their voice by being part of the coalition, they lost their younger voters because of their actions in the first 2 years and lost many of the central tories because of the threat of the labour SNP coalition.
All of the talk of labour and whether they should be move to the left or centre ignores the fact that labour did not lose a lot of seats to the conservatives, they lost seats to the SNP and the conservatives gained lib dem seats from more central voters. Labour will always have key heartlands. It is the massive reduction in seats of the third party that has given the conservatives gains.
If labour are more and more irrelevant to much of the population, especially in the south of the country then I would expect the lib dems to win far more votes at the next election, particularly as they will be in a position to fight against the government, which they couldn't do as part of it.
I felt that the coalition did help keep the government anchored to the centre, under pressure from ukip and the right of the conservative party. I am concerned that without the coalition and the opposition now in disarray there could be real risk to the environment (fracking, reduced investment in renewable energy, deregulation of legislation), society (with less of a focus on the distribution of wealth) and human rights (in particular the removal of the human rights act) that will cause the people of this country long term harm.
As for labour, I can't see how they will ever be able to gain seats they need in England whilst also gaining the seats they need in Scotland to gain a majority without the conservatives really screwing people over in the next 5 years to unite the population in getting them out as the aim. Much will depend on the economy, which can't continue to be based on a policy inflatted housing bubble for another 5 years...

Good analysi however ido think Labour did struggle against the tories. They wanted to win marginals and didnt. The top marginal seat, warickshire north or something, they went backwards. It wasnt just a lib to tory but youre right, this isnt getting enough voice

 

[Bry Nylon]

Massive demo in London at present with a "**** The Tories" theme

Bit late. I think they may find that ship sailed between 7am and 10pm on Thursday last.

 

[Soulman]

Have just read the article. Its a comment article by a reporter, not an editorial comment. It is an individual having a view. There are plenty on here with views.

Importantl thouh the point he makes is not the one you says he does.

He actually states that the NHS is a more socailly desirable model that the US insurance one. I know that doesnt fit the point you were trying to make but i thought it appropriate to be factually accurate.

What he argues is no adopting the US model but the social health insurance systems adopted in Germany (model society...), Netherlands and Switzerland amoungst others is a better solution in terms of outcomes, satisfaction and ability to raise funds.

Yeah, but there is nothing like a bit of spin, the same spin that the voter did not vote for.