Thoughts on Charlton tonight...

[hans kraay fan club]

I agree with most of that.

However, maybe my memory is shot, but I can't remember their keeper as anything particularly special. The only save I remember him making was from Vicente right at the end, and that was a pretty powder-puff finish that gave him a chance to save it - Vicente should have scored.

.

To be honest that's nonsense. Vicente side footed that pretty powerfully, and it looked in all the way. That was nothing short of an INCREDIBLE save. Vicente did little wrong. Had he tred to absolutely smash it, and it had sailed over the bar, we'd be (rightly) hammering him for it.

He also made a decent stop down to his right from Vicente's low shot from outside the box earlier on.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The problem was that without Orlandi the delivery of the corners was very poor so there was little point in getting the corners in the first place.

Simply not true. Calderon and Greer both had free headers from decent Lopez / Vicente corners, but failed to get them on target

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

Charlton did defend well but what happens if one of them good early chances for us goes in?,all of a sudden they have to change their game plan.we desperately needed an early goal.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

To be honest that's nonsense. Vicente side footed that pretty powerfully, and it looked in all the way. That was nothing short of an INCREDIBLE save. Vicente did little wrong. Had he tred to absolutely smash it, and it had sailed over the bar, we'd be (rightly) hammering him for it.

He also made a decent stop down to his right from Vicente's low shot from outside the box earlier on.

Yes, I remember the other save now that you mention it. Not bad, but you'd expect him to make it.

And the one I mentioned before - I thought that Vicente side footed it quite gently - he was trying to be too safe. The keeper was on his way down and had time to raise his hand and push it over the bar. A very good save, but Vicente made it saveable.

You're right that we'd be on Vicente's back if he'd hammered it over the bar, but that's not the only other possible outcome. You'd expect him to score from there - hard and low, a bit like Ulloa on Saturday against Forest... or at least not lofting it at a height that keepers like, in an area that he could reach it.

 

[Quinney]

Yes, I remember the other save now that you mention it. Not bad, but you'd expect him to make it.

And the one I mentioned before - I thought that Vicente side footed it quite gently - he was trying to be too safe. The keeper was on his way down and had time to raise his hand and push it over the bar. A very good save, but Vicente made it saveable.

You're right that we'd be on Vicente's back if he'd hammered it over the bar, but that's not the only other possible outcome. You'd expect him to score from there - hard and low, a bit like Ulloa on Saturday against Forest... or at least not lofting it at a height that keepers like, in an area that he could reach it.

Only saw replay once after the game but remember thinking there wasn't much else he could have done with it, defender was blocking the low drive so only option was to go for the powerful controlled placed effect.

 

[tricky]

Surprised so many at the game were moaning about the corners - they ended up with a decent shot from about 50% of them, which is far better than usual.
Totally agree with the credit given to charlton and their tactics. They totally unnerved our back four and forced a lot of errors from us. The only shame for charlton was that kermorgant who was like a petulant fat kid the whole game - moaning to the ref, pretending to be fouled, fouling our guys, trying to get greer sent off. Really didn't like him at all - most annoying player i've seen at the amex this season.

 

[Grombleton]

The bit i still can't get my head around is this: Teams now come to the Amex playing, and hoping for, a point.

That kinda makes me happy that we have that respect from teams now, as frustrating as it is.

 

[Albumen]

They played well but Vicente was isolated the first half, missing Orlandi's shadow. I don't think Dave had his best match positionally. We had 3 or 4 chances but flUffed a couple. Still, we didn't lose and Upson was easily MOTM.

 

[Wilko]

They played well but Vicente was isolated the first half, missing Orlandi's shadow. I don't think Dave had his best match positionally. We had 3 or 4 chances but flUffed a couple. Still, we didn't lose and Upson was easily MOTM.

WHAT? He was dreadful! Normally plays very well but I thought his passing was off and his distribution put us into trouble time and time again. I do not think anyone played particularly well last night though Calde did not realy put a foot wrong.

 

[Sam-]

To be honest that's nonsense. Vicente side footed that pretty powerfully, and it looked in all the way. That was nothing short of an INCREDIBLE save. Vicente did little wrong. Had he tred to absolutely smash it, and it had sailed over the bar, we'd be (rightly) hammering him for it.

He also made a decent stop down to his right from Vicente's low shot from outside the box earlier on.

Also I think there was a header from Ulloa(?) which hit the ground but was going in the corner, Hamer got across to it very well to stop it.

Just one of those games where things just don't come together. Not through lack of effort just wasn't going in. I'm definitely positive after that game, even when we were very much off the boil, we still managed enough to almost win the game. Bring on Leicester, unlike Charlton, their away form is shocking and we surely can have another off day.

EDIT - Re: the post immediately above this, Calde didn't deserve MoM. Guilty of a glaring miss. Not sure who deserves MoM . . probably Hamer.

 

[JTR938]

Best away team goalkeeper that I have seen play against the albion for a very long time! Exciting young prospect, good luck to him! earned them a very valuble point last night.

 

[goldstone]

Hats off to them, they did a fantastic job on us. Their scout needs a raise because they played an almost perfect game. Tactically, that was the best I have seen a side defend against us. It wasn't just as simple as kicking us off the park or sitting deep and trying to hit us on the break or score from a set piece, it was thought-out from front to back.


1. Their 14 was all over Bridcutt like a rash. Did not give him a minute's peace, snapping at his heels for 90 minutes and refusing to allow him the time on the ball when he drops in to receive it from the centre backs. Still amazes me so few teams have worked out how key he is to us.
2. Their back four actually played quite deep, with their centre backs taking it in turns to bump and jostle Ulloa, nothing blatant enough to be called a foul, but rarely did he get more than a yard or two of space as they were usually touch (shirt-pulling) tight.
3. Meanwhile, whilst the defence was deep, their wingers and striker pressed very high and with good intensity all game, as some opposing sides have tried, but vitally their whole team's shape was also very narrow. There was room in wide positions if we had time to pick out a switch ball or diagonal, but all the passes were being so rushed by the forward pressure we couldn't move it laterally with pace and accuracy. This meant it was just front to back, and they had Jackson and their other centre mid sitting in the hole between defence and midfield, blocking the route on the deck and crowding the space if Lopez or Vicente tried to drop deeper to pick it up.
4. The two centre mids also shifted across the pitch as a unit to help out their full-back whenever we got it wide to Buckley or Kaz, and much like we did to Zaha, they were happy to funnel them into blind alleys and towards the corner flag without really ever committing to the tackle and getting isolated one-on-one. It was so tight that we had to try impossible little one-touch triangles to get through, and inevitably they had enough numbers for someone to make an interception.
5. Their keeper had a worldie. I can't help thinking if we kept playing until Saturday we wouldn't have scored. Fair play to him.


All this leads me to wonder why Gus didn't want to make a change. With 25 minutes to go Orlandi & Hammond went out to warm up. Bridcutt was walking a bit of a tightrope on a yellow and with a couple of other fouls to his name, and LuaLua, whilst beating his man over and over, had his head permanently down and was just brainlessly smacking it fifteen yards over the bar or lashing missile-like crosses the same distance over Ulloa's head. It was more or less like-for-like, but would have given 'that something different' that Gus always wants. Orlandi, whilst not as quick or skilful as Kaz, is ten times more intelligent as a footballer and has an absolute wand of a left foot to whip some meaningful crosses in. Hammond is not as good at the role LB plays, but would perhaps have coped a little better with their 14 as he's bigger and stronger, and would also have added more height for the 1,286 corners we won. The time ticked away...game over. Job done for Charlton, and for once not a cynical hatchet job; or a sit back and time-waste from minute one, nick a mouldy deflected goal for a 1-0 type job, but a disciplined and tactically superb job. On that evidence I wouldn't mind having at least a look at Powell when Poyet eventually goes. Not as first choice, but perhaps put him on a shortlist.

Great post!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Calde didn't deserve MoM. Guilty of a glaring miss. Not sure who deserves MoM . . probably Hamer.

Calde was, as usual, solid and dependable. If he loses his place when Bruno comes back, there is no justice.

Yes, you're right, he snatched at a chance where he probably should have scored. But he gets on the end of set pieces so often, makes space for himself so well, that it begs the question as to why some of the others seem to find this so hard.

And he's a right back.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

The problem was that without Orlandi the delivery of the corners was very poor so there was little point in getting the corners in the first place.

Are you for real? We hit the post and had 2 or 3 free headers that were out wide or straight at the keeper!

 

[Simster]

The problem was that without Orlandi the delivery of the corners was very poor so there was little point in getting the corners in the first place.

You've obviously read this nonsense on that crap footballrumours site or your son told you because some bloke told him in the pub.

Either way, it's the usual bollocks from you isn't it?

 

[Soggy]

Yeh, Excellent post!

 

[SeafordBHA]

Calde could've scored a hattrick really, had a few very good chances he'd normally put away. If it was anyones fault we didn't score you could argue it was his. None of the other players had the same chances as him, right back or not.

 

[brightonrock]

Doesn't their keeper having a worldie suggest that their tactics didn't completely work, and we had chances to win the game, which on another day we'd take?

True, I guess it depends which way you look at it. Yes we did still create chances and might have won - but I suppose that's true of any game that's heading for a draw, it only needs one chance to score a winner, one day it happens, another it doesn't.

Alternatively you could say the keeper did his job as last line of defence perfectly - Charlton executed a specific tactic and trusted their keeper to bail them out if we did get through, whether by a mistake from them or a piece of brilliance from us.

Sure they rode their luck but for once, walking away frustrated, I admired their setup and game plan rather than being angry that some talentless cynical northern cloggers (cough, bolton) kicked chunks out of us from start to finish. They weren't particularly expansive or daring, true - and they had no stand-out individuals - but they were intelligent, organised and had (imo) much to be admired about them as a unit.

 

[Sam-]

Calde could've scored a hattrick really, had a few very good chances he'd normally put away. If it was anyones fault we didn't score you could argue it was his. None of the other players had the same chances as him, right back or not.

Their tactics worked, but individual mistakes on their part or a good pass or turn from us was where most our chances came from.
Even with the best tactics there will be chances.

 

[Neecha]

Hats off to them, they did a fantastic job on us. Their scout needs a raise because they played an almost perfect game. Tactically, that was the best I have seen a side defend against us. It wasn't just as simple as kicking us off the park or sitting deep and trying to hit us on the break or score from a set piece, it was thought-out from front to back.


1. Their 14 was all over Bridcutt like a rash. Did not give him a minute's peace, snapping at his heels for 90 minutes and refusing to allow him the time on the ball when he drops in to receive it from the centre backs. Still amazes me so few teams have worked out how key he is to us.
2. Their back four actually played quite deep, with their centre backs taking it in turns to bump and jostle Ulloa, nothing blatant enough to be called a foul, but rarely did he get more than a yard or two of space as they were usually touch (shirt-pulling) tight.
3. Meanwhile, whilst the defence was deep, their wingers and striker pressed very high and with good intensity all game, as some opposing sides have tried, but vitally their whole team's shape was also very narrow. There was room in wide positions if we had time to pick out a switch ball or diagonal, but all the passes were being so rushed by the forward pressure we couldn't move it laterally with pace and accuracy. This meant it was just front to back, and they had Jackson and their other centre mid sitting in the hole between defence and midfield, blocking the route on the deck and crowding the space if Lopez or Vicente tried to drop deeper to pick it up.
4. The two centre mids also shifted across the pitch as a unit to help out their full-back whenever we got it wide to Buckley or Kaz, and much like we did to Zaha, they were happy to funnel them into blind alleys and towards the corner flag without really ever committing to the tackle and getting isolated one-on-one. It was so tight that we had to try impossible little one-touch triangles to get through, and inevitably they had enough numbers for someone to make an interception.
5. Their keeper had a worldie. I can't help thinking if we kept playing until Saturday we wouldn't have scored. Fair play to him.


All this leads me to wonder why Gus didn't want to make a change. With 25 minutes to go Orlandi & Hammond went out to warm up. Bridcutt was walking a bit of a tightrope on a yellow and with a couple of other fouls to his name, and LuaLua, whilst beating his man over and over, had his head permanently down and was just brainlessly smacking it fifteen yards over the bar or lashing missile-like crosses the same distance over Ulloa's head. It was more or less like-for-like, but would have given 'that something different' that Gus always wants. Orlandi, whilst not as quick or skilful as Kaz, is ten times more intelligent as a footballer and has an absolute wand of a left foot to whip some meaningful crosses in. Hammond is not as good at the role LB plays, but would perhaps have coped a little better with their 14 as he's bigger and stronger, and would also have added more height for the 1,286 corners we won. The time ticked away...game over. Job done for Charlton, and for once not a cynical hatchet job; or a sit back and time-waste from minute one, nick a mouldy deflected goal for a 1-0 type job, but a disciplined and tactically superb job. On that evidence I wouldn't mind having at least a look at Powell when Poyet eventually goes. Not as first choice, but perhaps put him on a shortlist.

Spot on. On another note they have a very poor team in terms of individual players and have no game turners so have to be a solid unit to survive. It pisses me off the amount of teams that come to the amex to defend. We had plenty of chances and should have won comfortably imo. If you look at this game on the fixture list its def one we would have expected to win. 2 dropped points Im just wondering if we have the depth in our squad to go up this year. The loss of our whole forward line is starting to show just in terms of being able to mix it up. Ulloa got very little change in the air last night which is unusual.