The Wealden Line.

[kevo]

Are the Towns and the people that live in them in 2015 the same as they were in 1969?
Given that the area is mostly rural, would the types of jobs that the people living in those towns do now, be the same as those that the people living there in 1969 did?

Uckfield at least has almost trebled in population since that time and they are building 1,000 more houses - which must lend support to reopening the line.

Just in terms of the 'connectedness' it would provide reopening the link to Lewes would make a lot of sense. It's only seven miles - and compared to the unnecessary HS2 the amount it would cost to build would be a tiny drop in the ocean. Having a potential alternative London-Brighton route for when that line is down is also surely a strong argument.

I agree with his Lordship re: the fact that the disputes between the Wealden line campaigners and the BML2 lot does the scheme no favours. BML2 is very unlikely to ever happen, as it require a hell of a lot more investment.

 

[Lankyseagull]

One question has always bugged me on the re-opening of the Uckfield-Lewes line:

What happens at Uckfield?

A) Do we go back to the days of the level crossing screwing up the traffic in the town once more? (the station was shifted to the other side of the road in the 90's to alleviate this problem). Given that Uckfield is a one through road town with high levels of traffic (local journeys are generally taken by going through the town as opposed to using the congested by-pass), to hold up the traffic would have major implications on flow through the town. The recently completed 'improvements' between the Bell Lane & Framfield Road traffic lights have made matters worse already for traffic movement through this part of the town.

B) Is a bridge built to carry the railway over the High Street? This would be a blot on the High Street scene (some might say an improvement though!) and a major piece of engineering that would cause considerable disruption during construction and no doubt put Uckfield station out of action for a while (journies would probably have to start at Buxted). The river would also be a major hurdle, not to mention the affect on two nearby listed buildings (The Roller Mill and Bridge Cottage - currently undergoing a major restoration).

C) Does the Uckfield-Lewes line terminate on the other side of the road from the Uckfield-London line? To avoid commuters having to play chicken with the traffic to catch their connecting train a footbridge could be built over the road. It does leave however the issue of train connections working for the commuter. With services since January being severely affected (not only it seems from the ongoing work at London Bridge), it would not take much for commuters to be left stranded at Uckfield due to trains being terminated early at Crowborough.

Personally, I would love to see the line re-opened as I would probably use it to get to the Amex for each game, but I think that Uckfield will have a Spaceport before it happens!

 

[Leekbrookgull]

No, they wouldn't. There is a lot more commuting to London these days. And a lot more of that commuting involves driving a car to a major railway station that can offer a higher frequency train service than is available on the Uckfield line - places like Haywards Heath, East Grinstead and Wadhurst or Tunbridge Wells, for example.

Fair point,however should the 'Uckfield' line be re-opened it won't be an hourly service or less it will go the East Grinstead way every 30 mins minimum. I rememember E/G very well and the hourly 'Thumper' service and looks whats happen after 'third rail' a major upgrade decent clean,warm station,plus The Bluebell. Open up the 'Uckfield' and you open alot more options.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Look at where ever you are rail travel is on the up,places like Aberystwyth look set set to go hourly service at present two hourly,and Cambrian coast line to follow subject to upgrade,when i go to Manchester the money being poured in is huge with major signalling and track lay-out work. Rail traffic is up bigtime therefore money and clever thinking need to follow.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Lets face it,the East Grinstead to Three Bridges line would be busy,maybe very busy today if it was open ?

 

[goldstone]

I think I read somewhere that there's a plan to build a bridge west of the high street and close the level crossing.

 

[Diego Napier]

This may seem a crass question, but it is a genuine one ...

What is the problem that needs solving?

LB, I missed the notification for your post , sorry for the delay in responding!

I suppose there are 2 main problems:

1. Increasing rush hour overcrowding and delays on the main London to Brighton line
2. Lack of feasible rail connections from Brighton to the major Sussex towns of Tunbridge Wells, Crowborough, Uckfield and East Grinstead. Population growth in these towns and the absence of a train option adds to the number of vehicles on the roads.

 

[Lankyseagull]

I think I read somewhere that there's a plan to build a bridge west of the high street and close the level crossing.

If you're talking about Uckfield, that is a proposal to alleviate traffic congestion, put forward by a Developer I believe - the bridge would go over the river and former railway track bed (allowing the railway to re-open in the future). In the proposal, the area of road that was occupied by the level crossing (removed in the 90's) is to be pedestrianised with a cycle lane. The proposal also sees the removal of The Station pub, which while it's not the greatest pub in the world, would see the loss of a fairly historic building in the middle of the town.

 

[Lankyseagull]

LB, I missed the notification for your post , sorry for the delay in responding!

I suppose there are 2 main problems:

1. Increasing rush hour overcrowding and delays on the main London to Brighton line
2. Lack of feasible rail connections from Brighton to the major Sussex towns of Tunbridge Wells, Crowborough, Uckfield and East Grinstead. Population growth in these towns and the absence of a train option adds to the number of vehicles on the roads.

Sussex town?

 

[We Won't Be Druv]

Lets face it,the East Grinstead to Three Bridges line would be busy,maybe very busy today if it was open ?

Absolutely, think how many people from both East Grinstead and Crawley Down work in Crawley or Gatwick for example.

In addition, there are several other old station sites where you could argue there are now commuter settlements, (Southwater, Henfield, Forest Row, Newick) which would have benefitted had the lines stayed open.

 

[Eeyore]

Lets face it,the East Grinstead to Three Bridges line would be busy,maybe very busy today if it was open ?

That closure baffles me to this day. It was believed that Beeching, being resident in the East Grinstead area, was showing his objective mettle. But that closure is beyond me.

 

[perseus]

Government decisions are London-based. They would squander money on transport projects in London, but not Sussex.

We have the oldest trains on the network and a rotten service because the money is spent elsewhere. I think is cheap (good) and nasty service.

 

[BlockDpete]

That closure baffles me to this day. It was believed that Beeching, being resident in the East Grinstead area, was showing his objective mettle. But that closure is beyond me.

True, you see plenty of cyclists on the Worth Way in the morning and late afternoon, going to a from work, when its not too muddy!

I guess re opening it would mean knocking down quite a bit of Crawley Down, plus Maidenbower. I think on a previous thread like this, expanding the Fastway bus service would be a more viable solution.

 

[Brovion]

Even before you factor in the ever-increasing population (and whichever form of transport you favour you can point at figures saying its use is rocketing) I'm just waiting for one of the Victorian-built bits of the current narrow and overcrowded London to Brighton line to eventually fail. Will be especially funny if it happens after Gatwick wins the battle to get its extra runway.

Is there any chance of any ****ing joined-up transport thinking in this country? (Answer, not with negative ***** like Baker around, no.)

 

[GT49er]

One alternative to sort diversions from the Mainline to London from Brighton is a "chord" near the junction at Arundel, allowing trains to be diverted via Worthing and Horsham to London without having to reverse at Littlehampton, also allows direct trains to Horsham, and you can have services to London without going through the bottleneck at Croydon - would cost a lot less too.

This would be a good, cost effective idea. Not a great attraction for people travelling from Brighton, maybe, but certainly worth considering from Worthing - and of course it could be used to relieve congestion when something fouls up on the BML.

Of course, the TOCs that run the West Sussex line would have to change their ways. At the moment I believe that most, if not all the trains going from Arundel to London go as far as Horsham and then skip across to Three Bridges to join in the congestion on the BML and through East Croydon. They'll need to start using the route up through Dorking and Leatherhead more, avoiding East Croydon altogether - and some could even take the route via Epsom to Waterloo.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

True, you see plenty of cyclists on the Worth Way in the morning and late afternoon, going to a from work, when its not too muddy!

I guess re opening it would mean knocking down quite a bit of Crawley Down, plus Maidenbower. I think on a previous thread like this, expanding the Fastway bus service would be a more viable solution.

You are right here - I suggested expanding the Fastway. Unfortunately, when the line was closed, building took place across it (Cranston Way I think) at Crawley Down, and sheltered housing and a shopping parade were built on the trackbed. This means the line could never be reopened (its closure was utterly barmy, but there we are). To put the Fastway on Worth Way would be very unpopular, as it's a very popular cycle/dog/personal walking route, and provides some urban countryside on the west side of East Grinstead. Having said that it would be the only practicable way of running a fast bus service (regular buses get caught in the traffic on the totally inadequate A264). The only other way of doing it would be to build a dual carriageway from East Grinstead to Crawley, with a dedicated bus lane alongside. That would be equally unpopular - the only recent proposal for an East Grinstead bypass/A264 improvement involved 2500 houses, and sparked a massive anti campaign. I am personally opposed to a second Gatwick runway unless massive transport improvements are promised with it (for some reason the Highways Agency will not consider improvements on the A27 from Lewes to Polegate without a second Gatwick runway). In other words, my opposition is not for NIMBY reasons, but because I don't think the local area could cope with the extra traffic. The villages up the road from us already act as a through route from Crowborough, etc, to Gatwick.

Regarding Uckfield to Lewes, personally I think a simple link is all that is needed. Uckfield trains, which are only hourly, could be extended to Seaford. The whole BML2 issue is acting as a diversion. This in itself would open up a great range of travel opportunities. Trains could go to Tunbridge Wells West with the support of the Spa Valley Railway. I know Ed favours the bus solution. The problem is that the majority of drivers (myself included) might well use a train instead of our cars, but outside cities are unlikely to use buses. I sometimes use the 28 or 29 from Lewes to Falmer, but would be very reluctant to travel from Tunbridge Wells to Brighton on it, as it just isn't comfortable enough.

 

[Notters]

If you're talking about Uckfield, that is a proposal to alleviate traffic congestion, put forward by a Developer I believe - the bridge would go over the river and former railway track bed (allowing the railway to re-open in the future). In the proposal, the area of road that was occupied by the level crossing (removed in the 90's) is to be pedestrianised with a cycle lane. The proposal also sees the removal of The Station pub, which while it's not the greatest pub in the world, would see the loss of a fairly historic building in the middle of the town.

I thought this was what they were doing now, but not been down there for a while?

Sussex town?

It used to be and should still be.

 

[Notters]

The problem is that the majority of drivers (myself included) might well use a train instead of our cars, but outside cities are unlikely to use buses. I sometimes use the 28 or 29 from Lewes to Falmer, but would be very reluctant to travel from Tunbridge Wells to Brighton on it, as it just isn't comfortable enough.

...and takes over two hours to do 35 miles which is a little off putting! You can cycle it quicker if you're fit!

 

[Brovion]

... The problem is that the majority of drivers (myself included) might well use a train instead of our cars, but outside cities are unlikely to use buses. I sometimes use the 28 or 29 from Lewes to Falmer, but would be very reluctant to travel from Tunbridge Wells to Brighton on it, as it just isn't comfortable enough.

Agreed. The bus just isn't a realistic alternative for anything other than short journeys. I said on another thread that a few years ago my wife and I used to occasionally go from Brighton to Tunbridge Wells and back. The journey was long, frustrating and very uncomfortable as bus seats aren't built for long-distance travel. (The fact I'm calling Brighton to Tunbridge Wells 'long distance' says it all). Lewes is about as far as I can comfortably go on a bus from Brighton; even Worthing's too far, the train is SO much better.

 

[goldstone]

You are right here - I suggested expanding the Fastway. Unfortunately, when the line was closed, building took place across it (Cranston Way I think) at Crawley Down, and sheltered housing and a shopping parade were built on the trackbed. This means the line could never be reopened (its closure was utterly barmy, but there we are). To put the Fastway on Worth Way would be very unpopular, as it's a very popular cycle/dog/personal walking route, and provides some urban countryside on the west side of East Grinstead. Having said that it would be the only practicable way of running a fast bus service (regular buses get caught in the traffic on the totally inadequate A264).

In my opinion the East Grinstead to Three Bridges rail link should definitely be reopened. It would suit a light rail or tram type operation.

As for the houses at Crawley Down ... compulsory purchase and demolish them. The reinstating of the rail link is far far more important in the long term than a few houses.

And as for the cyclists and dog walkers on Worth Way ... they can find somewhere else to cycle and walk their dogs.