The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[ROSM]

I've made this point elsewhere but here goes

It has been said by Yougov that those with postal votes seem to have mostly voted exit. Those who voted on day seem to have been mostly for remain. These votes would have been cast maybe ten days ago. Corbyn didn't start campaigning until ten days before. Many pro Europe lines were removed from his speeches. His office turned down pro Europe campaigns

So do we read into this that he wasn't for remain? If so he was duplicitous with his own party

Did he not campaign because he thought that remain would win? Then he has poor judgement

Did he misread the impact of postal votes? If so he is ill prepared strategically

 

[Seagull58]

Many people predicted civil war within the Conservative Party as a result of this referendum. Who would have predicted civil war within the Labour Party? Interesting times.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I've made this point elsewhere but here goes

It has been said by Yougov that those with postal votes seem to have mostly voted exit. Those who voted on day seem to have been mostly for remain. These votes would have been cast maybe ten days ago. Corbyn didn't start campaigning until ten days before. Many pro Europe lines were removed from his speeches. His office turned down pro Europe campaigns

So do we read into this that he wasn't for remain? If so he was duplicitous with his own party

Did he not campaign because he thought that remain would win? Then he has poor judgement

Did he misread the impact of postal votes? If so he is ill prepared strategically

At the very least Corbyn was conflicted in his opinion and feeling about the EU. Giving it a grudging 7.5 showed that.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Many people predicted civil war within the Conservative Party as a result of this referendum. Who would have predicted civil war within the Labour Party? Interesting times.

There's been a civil war within the Labour Party ever since Corbyn was elected. Labour need to remain united. Getting rid of Corbyn and replacing him with some Tory-lite New Labour face won't suddenly make things better. Pretty funny though how the country is in turmoil so of course it's Corbyn's fault.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

At the very least Corbyn was conflicted in his opinion and feeling about the EU. Giving it a grudging 7.5 showed that.

Surely that's a good thing? Being able to see the positives and the negatives instead of going in blind.

 

[alfredmizen]

Very much so. And I'd go a bit further too.

I thought it was interesting to hear Boris Johnson roundly boo-ed by those waiting for him to leave his house this morning. There will be a considerable number of those moderately right of centre who will be appalled at what Johnson represents, whether he goes on to lead the Conservative Party or not. A strong Labour leader should be able to appeal and communicate to these people. There could be a lot of low-hanging fruit for the Labour party, should they have a leader worthy of the name.

Frank Field.

 

[Hugo Rune]

If only politics was like football?

There is a certain American the Labour Party should sign as leader. I believe he is on a 'free' later this year. This character is the opposite to Corbyn; a pragmatist rather than an idealist, a leader rather than an activist. Our country needs Obama!

 

[cunning fergus]

There's been a civil war within the Labour Party ever since Corbyn was elected. Labour need to remain united. Getting rid of Corbyn and replacing him with some Tory-lite New Labour face won't suddenly make things better. Pretty funny though how the country is in turmoil so of course it's Corbyn's fault.

I would argue that there has been a civil war in the Labour Party since Blair removed clause 4.

The referendum result on Friday has brought these issues very clearly out in the open, as it's a culmination of Blair's decision to move New Labour onto Tory political territory and desert their support rooted in this country's traditional working class.

It is a fact that this country voted to exit the EU with the overwhelming support of the constituency.

Labour will now have to decide who it wants to support and represent because you cannot reconcile the sentiment of old Labour heartlands in places like Hartlepool and new Labour power bases like in Brighton.

The party's current civil war is totemic, Labour's traditional support base has deserted it, they have been replaced in recent year largely with people who simply can't face voting Tory but support their ideology.

That circle won't be squared by a new shiny charismatic leader, we will probably need an old Labour Party which will be embedded in socialist principles, and a new Labour Party that can embrace pro EU Tory ideology.

 

[Ernest]

Benn is a hypocrite, won't be missed as he offered NOTHING. I bet his Father would be disgusted at his behaviour, Benn got destroyed by Andrew Neill in the debates as he hasn't got a principled bone in his body, jumps on whatever bandwagon can further his career. He is finished now, he can join Cameron and Gideon at the Job Centre

 

[alfredmizen]

Any idea of what happened to the austerity budget ? Especially as our credit rating is down again thanks to Osborne's incompetence, looks like we will need a LABOUR government to clear this mess up

total, and utter , unadulterated , horseshit.

 

[Ernest]

total, and utter , unadulterated , horseshit.

Osborne cocked up the referendum campaign so we had the leave vote and now our credit rating has gone down, incompetent to me and MILLIONS of people

 

[Steve in Japan]

At the very least Corbyn was conflicted in his opinion and feeling about the EU. Giving it a grudging 7.5 showed that.

Let's be honest, everybody on the Remain side give it a poor score, not just Corbyn. And then rushed on to say "but don't leave".

Bit of a flawed campaign strategy.

 

[alfredmizen]

Osborne cocked up the referendum campaign so we had the leave vote and now our credit rating has gone down, incompetent to me and MILLIONS of people

Thats what you were trying to imply was it ? Course you were ................

 

[Bold Seagull]

Do we imagine circa 1995, Blair/Prescott/Mandelson/Brown/Campbell wouldn't have been absolutely primed to take this on headfirst? Like them or loath them they had a plan and knew what they were doing. Corbyn/Watson/McDonnell/Abbott - I'm not sure they could run a bowls club!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Osborne cocked up the referendum campaign so we had the leave vote and now our credit rating has gone down, incompetent to me and MILLIONS of people

I thought you voted for Brexit

Our credit rating is currently Aa1 the second highest possible rating.

 

[cunning fergus]

Do we imagine circa 1995, Blair/Prescott/Mandelson/Brown/Campbell wouldn't have been absolutely primed to take this on headfirst? Like them or loath them they had a plan and knew what they were doing. Corbyn/Watson/McDonnell/Abbott - I'm not sure they could run a bowls club!

We don't need to imagine, we have just lived through the "plan" and this is the result.

They embraced Toryism, which was great while the Banks were given free rein to provide credit to anyone so houses prices went up and people felt richer, this was all ok for those on that money bus.

Our borders were opened up and a free EU wide labour market attracted millions from poorer EU countries to help "stimulate" the economy, shorthand for driving wages down for the poor, and the Labour Party's core support. When they moaned, like Gillian Duffy, they were called bigots.......they still are.

They sowed the wind, and ignored the voices that would have held back on creating this dynamic.

A repeat of another group of global capitalist lying shills is not needed thank you.

 

[beorhthelm]

Osborne cocked up the referendum campaign so we had the leave vote and now our credit rating has gone down,

credit rating has not gone down, it has gone to "negative outlook". all that means is they are are looking at the rating maybe going down. it hasnt yet, its far too early to say either way.

Osborne did cock up the campaign though, that must be odd for non-Conservative to have to cope with, they let him run the campaign and do so badly.

 

[GT49er]

Corbyn was elected by a massive majority of Labour grass roots, the rank and and file of the Labour heartlands - much to the dismay of all the Londoncentric luvvies in the PLP. If he was a proper leader, he would have come out and supported Leave (which I believe is what he supported up until he became leader anyway).

 

[Buzzer]

The PLP is fuming that Corbyn effectively sabotaged his own party's Remain campaign. This is why they planned the coup:

http://www.politico.eu/article/how-...-remain-boris-craig-oliver-jim-messina-obama/

"Jeremy Corbyn never budged. Not even Barack Obama could have convinced the Labour leader to help David Cameron make the case against Brexit. Less than a month before the historic EU referendum, the team assembled by Cameron to keep Britain in the European Union was worried about wavering Labour voters and frustrated by the opposition leader’s lukewarm support. Remain campaign operatives floated a plan to convince Corbyn to make a public gesture of cross-party unity by appearing in public with the prime minister. Polling showed this would be the “number one” play to reach Labour voters.

Senior staff from the campaign “begged” Corbyn to do a rally with the prime minister, according to a senior source who was close to the Remain campaign. Corbyn wanted nothing to do with the Tory leader, no matter what was at stake. Gordon Brown, the Labour prime minister whom Cameron vanquished in 2010, was sent to plead with Corbyn to change his mind. Corbyn wouldn’t. Senior figures in the Remain camp, who included Cameron’s trusted communications chief Craig Oliver and Jim Messina, President Obama’s campaign guru, were furious. Even at more basic levels of campaigning, Labour were refusing to cooperate. The party would not share its voter registration lists with Stronger In, fearing the Tories would steal the information for the next general election. “Our data is our data,” one senior Labour source said when asked about the allegation.

In desperation, the Remain strategists discussed reaching out to the White House to intervene directly. Obama had met Corbyn during a trip to London in April, when the American president argued forcefully for Remain. They wondered: Maybe Obama could call the Labour leader and convince him to campaign with Cameron? Don’t bother, Labour aides told them. Nobody was going to coax their boss into sharing a public platform with Cameron. The idea was dropped before it reached the White House. “We can’t stand there every week and wail away at you for prime minister’s questions and then get on stage with you,” a senior Corbyn aide said at one tense meeting three weeks before the vote, according to a Remain source."

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Surely that's a good thing? Being able to see the positives and the negatives instead of going in blind.

The problem is that he could not really offer much encouragement to remain. I genuinely think he did not know what to do. All his previous natural inclination was exit but here he was supposed to be advocating leave. It was a mistake not to campaign harder for remain and not to share a platform with other remain leaders. That more than implied he was unenthusiastic about the whole thing.