[Albion] The injustice against Liverpool

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Because what will it achieve?
We and other clubs have had dreadful decisions given against us and got on with things behind closed doors without the ‘look at us’ attitude of Liverpool.

Again, see Rosa Parks.

aka you never know till you try. I would have thought that listening to a recording of the three oaves bumbling and fluffing in the VAR hut would be more than instructive.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Because what will it achieve?
We and other clubs have had dreadful decisions given against us and got on with things behind closed doors without the ‘look at us’ attitude of Liverpool.

Because it might mean improvements are made in the future?

I hate VAR but it’s not going anywhere so we need to try and make it work better. As @Hugo Rune says, the first thing to do is make sure the VAR officials are independent and not part of the same network as the on field officials.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

It’s really neither.

Officials are fearful and not able to criticise each other which is essentially what VAR is all about. It’s the classic establishment ‘old boys network’ just like we see in the Met. They are looking after their own and put respect for each other’s decisions above all else.

VAR needs to be completely independent from those ****ish refs. As long they are marking their own homework, we’ll see mistakes like this all day long. If we’d been brilliant against Villa, we’d have still lost with the level of VAR and officiating in the match, they are rotten to the core.

VAR cockups are totally different from any alleged police corruption. Liverpool's wrongly disallowed goal, and the penalties not awarded to us and to Wolves against ManU (and several other incidents) are errors played out in front of millions of people live on TV. They can’t be concealed. There can be no cover up, hence the grovelling apologies from the PGMOL. VAR cockups are… VAR cockups, and very public by definition.

 

[BadFish]

I heard that the clubs voted against the semi automatic offside thing which has worked well in other settings.

Does anyone know more about this?

VAR isn't the problem it is how it is being operated and the fact that referees are not Heald accountable for their decisions.

Mic em up and have them explain what they saw/what they are seeing and why they made their decision. I believe this happens in rugby and works well.

 

[Rookie]

Because it might mean inprovements are made in the future?

How does releasing the audio change anything? All it does is give Liverpool the chance to say it was a conspiracy against them. It won’t change anything, it was a cock up and everyone knows that without the audio

 

[m20gull]

I'm sure they did notice.

But my understanding is the rules say that as soon as play restarts, they can't then overturn. Which is obviously ridiculous if true.

So we already have a situation where there is no point in celebrating a goal until play resumes and now it is being suggested that we wait a further 30 seconds after play has restarted.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Because what will it achieve?
We and other clubs have had dreadful decisions given against us and got on with things behind closed doors without the ‘look at us’ attitude of Liverpool.

It’s not a 'look at us' attitude. They feel aggrieved and want accountability. We protested publicly too but our VAR cockup, not being awarded a penalty, is nothing like as bad as the VAR cockup on Sunday. On Sunday the VAR actually made the right decision but it wasn’t communicated correctly. Or it was communicated correctly but not understood correctly. That point is still unclear, and I’m presuming that’s why Liverpool want the audio to be made public.

 

[Farehamseagull]

How does releasing the audio change anything? All it does is give Liverpool the chance to say it was a conspiracy against them. It won’t change anything, it was a cock up and everyone knows that without the audio

Because as I say, it will mean improvements can be made. I think it’s a logical thing to do.

The two errors in this incident relate to communication and procedure. Releasing the audio will mean the PGMOL will be publically held to account and made to show they have made changes to the way they work going forward.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

How does releasing the audio change anything? All it does is give Liverpool the chance to say it was a conspiracy against them. It won’t change anything, it was a cock up and everyone knows that without the audio

It will explain how the error was made, and far from exposing a conspiracy against Liverpool it will confirm that it wasn’t a conspiracy but a cockup. What do you expect Liverpool to do? Just shrug and leave it?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

But what does "deliberate corruption" mean? Do you seriously think all those VAR guys sitting in that room are conspiring together with… with who? Daniel Levy? Conte? A shady betting syndicate? How much will all those officials have to be paid to compensate them for the risk of being detected, having their careers ending in disgrace and probably ending up in prison? It’s preposterous. The explanation is incompetence. Anyone who suspects corruption has to offer a theory on how it all works.

The Saudi boys that own Newcastle are quite happy to chop people up. I'm sure its crossed their mind offer the ref a brown envelope

With regard to the Spurs game, Stellini has been previously banned for 2 and a half years for match fixing. I don't necessarily think that's happened here but he and others were prepared to take the risk. I don't think it's a good look that these guys don't get a life ban either.

Refereeing corruption scandals are as old as the game (I tend to watch corrupt linos in kids football most weeks). I don't think its preposterous that this could happen at the highest level.

 

[Rookie]

It will explain how the error was made, and far from exposing a conspiracy against Liverpool it will confirm that it wasn’t a conspiracy but a cockup. What do you expect Liverpool to do? Just shrug and leave it?

Yes I do, much like all other clubs do.
Human error is human error, realising audio is not going to make any difference.
Release all audio or none at all. Liverpool (or any other club) should not be able to pick and choose what audio is released

 

[BBassic]

Yes I do, much like all other clubs do.
Human error is human error, realising audio is not going to make any difference.
Release all audio or none at all. Liverpool (or any other club) should not be able to pick and choose what audio is released

This might be the moment that provides the catalyst for that being the reality.

I don't understand the "it's shit for everyone, why bother" mentality here. Showing PGMOL to be at best feckless and at worst truly incompetent can only lead to positive reform.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

@Iggle Piggle
I’m not going to defend the Saudis but tell me how trying to bribe a ref is possible under VAR? And of course if the ref reported the attempted bribe (as I’m certain they would), that would be the end of the Saudis' foray into football ownership, and would have serious repercussions for their sportswashing policy in general. Why would they do it? Why not just spend their money on good players and coaches?

In pre-VAR days, I can understand how a corrupt ref could make one-off 'bad decisions' because he was totally unaccountable once the moment had passed. If you’re going to be corrupt you need to operate alone. VAR no longer allows you to do that. Once you start trying to build a network of corruption you're signing your own arrest warrant. I don’t believe it happens.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Yes I do, much like all other clubs do.
Human error is human error, realising audio is not going to make any difference.
Release all audio or none at all. Liverpool (or any other club) should not be able to pick and choose what audio is released

I’ve already explained why the Sunday VAR cockup was different, and arguably worse. I can’t believe that people are advocating that clubs should just roll over and keep quiet in these circumstances. We felt outraged when it happened to us.

And yes, release all audio — why not?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

It’s not a 'look at us' attitude. They feel aggrieved and want accountability. We protested publicly too but our VAR cockup, not being awarded a penalty, is nothing like as bad as the VAR cockup on Sunday. On Sunday the VAR actually made the right decision but it wasn’t communicated correctly. Or it was communicated correctly but not understood correctly. That point is still unclear, and I’m presuming that’s why Liverpool want the audio to be made public.

Our goal disallowed at Palace was just as bad as Liverpool's.

 

[Guinness Boy]

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It’s not a 'look at us' attitude. They feel aggrieved and want accountability. We protested publicly too but our VAR cockup, not being awarded a penalty, is nothing like as bad as the VAR cockup on Sunday. On Sunday the VAR actually made the right decision but it wasn’t communicated correctly. Or it was communicated correctly but not understood correctly. That point is still unclear, and I’m presuming that’s why Liverpool want the audio to be made public.

I disagree that our experiences at Spurs were 'nothing like as bad'. This Liverpool one CAN ultimately be put down to a terrible failing in communications - something that a tightening of their procedures / script ought to prevent from happening again (and I have no issue with them asking for the audio to be released).

Our experience on the other hand, as I described in an earlier reply to you - with the two subjective handball calls - was definitely more difficult to accept than a simple bad mistake. The VAR that day actively chose how and when they applied their supposed procedures - one in complete contrast to the other -and both to the detriment to the same side.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Again, see Rosa Parks.

aka you never know till you try. I would have thought that listening to a recording of the three oaves bumbling and fluffing in the VAR hut would be more than instructive.

Rosa Parks? Good Lord!

We're talking about one of the most entitled clubs in the country not getting a refereeing decision for once - something that happened to us in more than one game last season. We're not talking about an entire section of the global population being singled out due to their skin colour.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

So we already have a situation where there is no point in celebrating a goal until play resumes and now it is being suggested that we wait a further 30 seconds after play has restarted.

Why do people keep pretending they don't celebrate a goal any more? It's just bizarre. Stadia aren't full of silent fans after every goal. The fans leap up and down cheering like they always have until/unless they spot a lino's raised flag like has happened for over 100 years or the modern version of a VAR review under way, which is obviously slower, but effectively the same thing.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Rosa Parks? Good Lord!

We're talking about one of the most entitled clubs in the country not getting a refereeing decision for once - something that happened to us in more than one game last season. We're not talking about an entire section of the global population being singled out due to their skin colour.

We are talking about whether a club has a right to complain and ask questions.

It does.