The Beatles

[Jam The Man]

I once had a massive row with a guy who said that the Pet Shop Boys were better than the Beatles. The guy was adamant that PSB would go on to sell more records and be more influential.

Maybe he thought you said 'beetles'...which traditionally don't sell well in pet shops?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Do enlighten us about the credit they have been given for things they weren't the first to do.

I'll use this list of "innovations" from a website as an example of things they get "credited" with.

http://listverse.com/2012/10/11/10-beatles-innovations-that-changed-music/

The claim they had the first Music Video. Too bad Serge Gainsbourg beat them too it in 58.

The claim of the first concept album. Too bad The Beach Boys, The Kinks and The Who beat them too it.

They claim the Beatles were first to play in a stadium. I will give them this one. Not that it has anything to do with their actual musical talents nor would I call it an innovation either.

The Beatles were the first band to have their own recording company in 1966/67. Too bad Herb Alpert of Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass Band started up his own label A&M in 62.

The particular Beatle cheerleading I speak of comes in when it gets to musical innovations.

This item could almost be a separate list in and of itself. The Beatles (and their recording engineers) either pioneered or popularized Artificial Double Tracking (ADT), back masking, tuned feedback, spliced audio loops, distortion, equalization, stereo effects, multi-tracking (overdubbing), compression, phase shifting, and innovative “microphoning.” Although the Beatles are not credited with the invention of most of these studio tricks, they were responsible for directly inspiring countless musical acts that were desperate to copy their unique sounds.

So what he's saying is almost everything on that list someone else did first but in their opinion it was the Beatles who revolutionised it. Even though other people created it and other popular bands had used these "unique" sounds previously.

That list is a prime example of their fans who credit them with a great many things they didn't innovate or pioneer in music.

My old time fave was always the Beatles were the first to introduce the sounds of the East into Westrn music with Norwegian Wood. Even though the Kinks had already released See my Friends which you guessed it, used the sounds of the Eastern Music with a sitar like musical component of it.

Hope that answered your question.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Get ready to hear about the Kinks

Damn straight!

 

[FamilyGuy]

I'll use this list of "innovations" from a website as an example of things they get "credited" with.

http://listverse.com/2012/10/11/10-beatles-innovations-that-changed-music/

The claim they had the first Music Video. Too bad Serge Gainsbourg beat them too it in 58.

The claim of the first concept album. Too bad The Beach Boys, The Kinks and The Who beat them too it.

They claim the Beatles were first to play in a stadium. I will give them this one. Not that it has anything to do with their actual musical talents nor would I call it an innovation either.

The Beatles were the first band to have their own recording company in 1966/67. Too bad Herb Alpert of Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass Band started up his own label A&M in 62.

The particular Beatle cheerleading I speak of comes in when it gets to musical innovations.



So what he's saying is almost everything on that list someone else did first but in their opinion it was the Beatles who revolutionised it. Even though other people created it and other popular bands had used these "unique" sounds previously.

That list is a prime example of their fans who credit them with a great many things they didn't innovate or pioneer in music.

My old time fave was always the Beatles were the first to introduce the sounds of the East into Westrn music with Norwegian Wood. Even though the Kinks had already released See my Friends which you guessed it, used the sounds of the Eastern Music with a sitar like musical component of it.

Hope that answered your question.

How does any of that make Beatles music bad?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

How does any of that make Beatles music bad?

I didn't say they were bad. I said they were ok.

 

[Mellotron]

Revolver. The perfect middle ground between the straight laced solid early stuff and the experimental later.

Saying you don't like The Beatles is like saying you don't like air. It's a meaningless, obtuse statement.

 

[BadFish]

I'll use this list of "innovations" from a website as an example of things they get "credited" with.

http://listverse.com/2012/10/11/10-beatles-innovations-that-changed-music/

The claim they had the first Music Video. Too bad Serge Gainsbourg beat them too it in 58.

The claim of the first concept album. Too bad The Beach Boys, The Kinks and The Who beat them too it.

They claim the Beatles were first to play in a stadium. I will give them this one. Not that it has anything to do with their actual musical talents nor would I call it an innovation either.

The Beatles were the first band to have their own recording company in 1966/67. Too bad Herb Alpert of Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass Band started up his own label A&M in 62.

The particular Beatle cheerleading I speak of comes in when it gets to musical innovations.



So what he's saying is almost everything on that list someone else did first but in their opinion it was the Beatles who revolutionised it. Even though other people created it and other popular bands had used these "unique" sounds previously.

That list is a prime example of their fans who credit them with a great many things they didn't innovate or pioneer in music.

My old time fave was always the Beatles were the first to introduce the sounds of the East into Westrn music with Norwegian Wood. Even though the Kinks had already released See my Friends which you guessed it, used the sounds of the Eastern Music with a sitar like musical component of it.

Hope that answered your question.

I disagree with the premise that to be innovative you have to be the very "first" to do something. To consistently be at the cutting edge of music innovation for their entire career puts them right up there with the most innovative bands of all time. Imho of course.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I disagree with the premise that to be innovative you have to be the very "first" to do something. To consistently be at the cutting edge of music innovation for their entire career puts them right up there with the most innovative bands of all time. Imho of course.

I'm merely countering the typical Beatle fan who pushes their awesomeness a bit too far and rages on anyone who challenges the myths surrounding them. Plenty of other bands at the time were just as good and innovative. For me they aren't in my top 3 UK bands of the 60's.

 

[keaton]

My order

Rubber Soul
Revolver
The Beatles (white album)
Abbey Road
Hard Days Night
Beatles for Sale
Help
Please Please Me
Sgt Pepper
With The Beatles
Let it Be
Magiscal Mystery Tour
Yellow Submarine

And Blue just edges it for me

 

[BadFish]

I'm merely countering the typical Beatle fan who pushes their awesomeness a bit too far and rages on anyone who challenges the myths surrounding them. Plenty of other bands at the time were just as good and innovative. For me they aren't in my top 3 UK bands of the 60's.

Who would they be?

Which bands would you say were more innovative than the Beatles?

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I voted "Red". The first album (vinyl that is) has some of the most sublime pop songs of all time.

It would have been great if they had stayed together to release an album with the best tracks from the solo albums and singles of 1970 and 1971. It would have contained the following

Maybe I'm Amazed, Every Night and Another Day by McCartney
Working Class Hero, Mother and I Found Out (and maybe Power To The People) by Lennon
My Sweet Lord, Wah Wah, What Is Life and Waiting On You All by Harrison
It Don't Come Easy - Harrison for Starr

Now that would have been some album.

"Every Night" is a seriously overlooked track.

In the old days of cassettes I made a 45-minute version of the best of the White Album and that was a killer-diller. Back In The USSR, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Helter Skelter, Sexy Sadie, Revolution (even better if you substituted the rockier version from the b side of Hey Jude) - top stuff.

 

[1234andcounting]

I'll use this list of "innovations" from a website as an example of things they get "credited" with.

http://listverse.com/2012/10/11/10-beatles-innovations-that-changed-music/

The claim they had the first Music Video. Too bad Serge Gainsbourg beat them too it in 58.

The claim of the first concept album. Too bad The Beach Boys, The Kinks and The Who beat them too it.

They claim the Beatles were first to play in a stadium. I will give them this one. Not that it has anything to do with their actual musical talents nor would I call it an innovation either.

The Beatles were the first band to have their own recording company in 1966/67. Too bad Herb Alpert of Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass Band started up his own label A&M in 62.

The particular Beatle cheerleading I speak of comes in when it gets to musical innovations.



So what he's saying is almost everything on that list someone else did first but in their opinion it was the Beatles who revolutionised it. Even though other people created it and other popular bands had used these "unique" sounds previously.

That list is a prime example of their fans who credit them with a great many things they didn't innovate or pioneer in music.

My old time fave was always the Beatles were the first to introduce the sounds of the East into Westrn music with Norwegian Wood. Even though the Kinks had already released See my Friends which you guessed it, used the sounds of the Eastern Music with a sitar like musical component of it.

Hope that answered your question.

Not really because anyone can make a claim on behalf of anyone else without it being justified. I quite often claim that Brighton And Hove Albion are by far the best team the world has ever seen. This might be contested by, for example, the Hungary team of the 1950s or the Barcelona team of recent years (or indeed the current Derby County team).

I don't think the Beatles themselves ever made such extravagant claims for themselves and they were always quick to acknowledge their influences and sources.

And I have read of no such outlandish claims in any of the more scholarly books about the Beatles - eg Revolution In The Head by Ian MacDonald or Shout by Philip Norman.

There is no doubt that Ray Davies is an incredibly talented songwriter, but his career has never been subject to the same scrutiny as those of Lennon, McCartney, Harrison and Starr. Had it been, there may well have been some serious de-bunking.

However, in the final analysis, The Beatles will remain the ultimate pop music phenomenon, unlikely to be overtaken ever. Lists of all-time greats remain relatively unchanged in any field, with a newcomer a decade about par for the course. Cf film (Battleship Potemkin, Citizen Kane) or footballers (Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Cruyff).

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

However, in the final analysis, The Beatles will remain the ultimate pop music phenomenon, unlikely to be overtaken ever. Lists of all-time greats remain relatively unchanged in any field, with a newcomer a decade about par for the course. Cf film (Battleship Potemkin, Citizen Kane) or footballers (Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Cruyff).

Depends who is analysing it and on what their requirements are for said analysis results I guess.

When I analysed it I didn't have them in my top 3.

 

[HovaGirl]

Beatles are the "Emperors New Clothes" of music. Actually they are a bit crap and boring but nobody dare say so.

To the modern ear, they may sound like everyone else, but that is because everyone else has been so influenced by them. At the time, their music was so innovative, it was headline news whenever a new single or album was released, with everyone wondering what they would come up with next. Even middle-aged and elderly adults loved them because they were innovative and recognised as true musicians. Nobody has ever come close to the national (or even, international) excitement when new Beatle music was released.