[Cricket] The Ashes - England v Australia - 5th Test, Oval, July 27-31, 2023

[Pavilionaire]

So sad to see Anderson bowling this shit

Tongue only played one test and still has more wickets in this series than Anderson.

 

[Questions]

Marginally Australias day imho.

 

[OzMike]

Bazball is all well and good, but could be tempered by adding a bit of test cricketing philosophy.

 

[Weststander]

 

[vegster]

View attachment 164168

No idea what that all means in the terms of the odds for this Test....but, this is already a draw at best or an Australia win.

 

[amexer]

Michael Vaughan said Australia should haver scored faster, After bowling England out I disagree. Not losing another 2/3 wickets was more important to them another 30 plus runs

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Can someone please tell me why on hopefully a five day test match an end of day score of 193-4-2 which with sensible batting by tea on day two you should have 400+ thus in a position not to lose the match which surely should be your first priority? However and thanks to Bazball 280 a/o is the way to go, because for me and maybe others (?) England are already on the back foot.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Bazball is all well and good, but could be tempered by adding a bit of test cricketing philosophy.

It was the usual kamikaze stuff and England got away with it. Australia dropped at least 5 catches. Our batting was loose and quite frankly, an awful display. We shouldn't have made 150.
They have been too loyal to Anderson. He has gone over the top and has lost all penetration. 120 odd overs...4 wickets...really?....oh well....apparently its all more entertaining.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Not a great day, bit of a damp squib really from players and spectators.

It sounded dull on the TV and Radio and even the commentators were saying the Oval crowd just weren’t into it. Think those two rainy days in Manchester have knocked the stuffing out of everyone.

 

[Weststander]

Michael Vaughan said Australia should haver scored faster, After bowling England out I disagree. Not losing another 2/3 wickets was more important to them another 30 plus runs

Exactly. They’re playing age old fundamentals that yield winning test cricket.

There’s an arrogance to English cricket hacks just now. Prior to the plethora of wickets falling today, on R5 one trotted out “The ICC owe us something, we’ve single handedly torn up the rulebook on test cricket with Bazball, saving the format”.

Australia don’t seem to have that message. Aiming to win over 5 days, 11 annoyingly dogged batsmen concentrating on every ball, wickets treated like gold dust.

 

[knocky1]

Can someone please tell me why on hopefully a five day test match an end of day score of 193-4-2 which with sensible batting by tea on day two you should have 400+ thus in a position not to lose the match which surely should be your first priority? However and thanks to Bazball 280 a/o is the way to go, because for me and maybe others (?) England are already on the back foot.

As a cricket fan since the late '60's I cannot waste the time.
We got a par score in good time today and Australia are just edging it.

 

[knocky1]

Exactly. They’re playing age old fundamentals that yield winning test cricket.

There’s an arrogance to English cricket hacks just now. Prior to the plethora of wickets falling today, on R5 one trotted out “The ICC owe us something, we’ve single handedly torn up the rulebook on test cricket with Bazball, saving the format”.

Australia don’t seem to have that message. Aiming to win over 5 days, 11 annoyingly dogged batsmen concentrating on every ball, wickets treated like gold dust.

I've really enjoyed the Series. We've pushed Australia back to Boycott cricket. Tomorrow morning I hope we make good progress. Don't listen to the Bazball hype It's media driven.

 

[vegster]

I've really enjoyed the Series. We've pushed Australia back to Boycott cricket. Tomorrow morning I hope we make good progress. Don't listen to the Bazball hype It's media driven.

Bazball has got us to 2-1 down and a below par score on day 1 at The Oval. Funnily enough " Boycott Cricket " often works.

 

[Bodian]

Bazball has got us to 2-1 down and a below par score on day 1 at The Oval. Funnily enough " Boycott Cricket " often works.

Last home Ashes series? 2-1 down going in to the last test. Scored 294 in first innings.

Not Bazball then - so much the same, just far more exciting.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

As a cricket fan since the late '60's I cannot waste the time.
We got a par score in good time today and Australia are just edging it.

Yep....they are ' just edging it '
220 odd behind.....9 wickets standing.....world class batsmen to come.....good pitch.....inconsistent bowling, possibly lacking a spinner.

The average first innings score in Test Cricket history is 327. This includes the first 80-90 years of uncovered wickets. Sticky dogs, vicious turners, matting, lightning quick, underprepared, overprepared....you name it....they got it. How....in the name of Allah Oakman is 283 a par score? Its a good pitch and a bare minimum to try and win this Test was 350.
As usual, we flashed at everything, gave plenty of chances and were fortunate that they had a bad day in the slips. It was one-dimensional, non-percentage cricket. To be fair, they did well to get to 283 considering the amount of horrible shots and giveaways there were. This style of cricket will see the odd big innings, which usually involves quite an element of luck and the rest of the time, it will be cameo 20's/30's/40's scored in rapid time, before, sooner rather than later, one rash shot too many finds them out. It is one day cricket transferred to the Test arena.
T20 and 50/50 cricket sees bowlers relegated to the role of cannon fodder. Spectators ( many of whom are not cricket buffs ) come to see the ball slogged to all parts, with every improvised shot in the book. The bowler who takes 5-20 in this format is not a popular bunny.
The beauty of Test Cricket has always been the balance between bat and ball, over a number of days and in different conditions. It allows for every style of play. Sides were always built around the dashers and the more obdurate. Getting the balance right. The obdurate to cement and secure an innings. The dashers to keep the scoring rate up.
Boycott keeps being mentioned on here as an example of the more obdurate type of player. Well...if you call sound defence, good judgement outside off stump and the ability to put bad balls away and keep the score ticking over....fair enough. Technically sound, solid and there to give England a platform. Sometimes to dash as well, when the situation demanded.
This current England side is unbalanced in strategy. The emphasis is on everybody to go out and dash from the word go. By all means open with pinch hitters like Duckett and Crawley and followed by Moeen. You may reach 150-1, quickly but you cannot risk being 10-2...30-3....50-4 against good bowling. The cement in the middle should be Root and Brook. These are the class acts who need to knuckle down and play the percentages and get the big hundreds. If the first three have scored quickly, there is no pressure. They can build steadily. They are good enough to score quickly later in their innings against tiring bowlers. Too often these two really good players are chucking it away in pursuit of rapid runs.
The aim is 250 for 3 or 4.....then the game changers ( Stokes and Bairstow ) can follow and if one comes off, you are going to get 400+ A first innings in a Test is crucial. It has to be plotted and planned and timed and executed.
Its not a major change in strategy. Its trying to balance out your resources more. Build it around these two. These are the gems. The King and the Crown Prince. Don't let them waste their talent playing too loosely. There are plenty of others to dash and try and take the game away from the opposition. A crowd sitting there for six hours enjoy different phases of play. A flying start followed by consolidation followed by a strong finish to the day.
The Aussies haven't been forced into percentage cricket....they have decided to play that way. They know England are taking big risks all the time and know they will offer plenty of chances. In the world of top professional sport, fine margins usually play a big part and Australia have tipped them in their direction by hanging on in there and waiting for England to overcommit. The last 7 wickets crashed for 99 yesterday with no thought to change in strategy. It was one dimensional biff bang wallop. The rest of the Test will see which style prevails but I know for sure that the Aussies will sense their chance, get their heads down and look to create a strong position.
.

 

[vegster]

Yep....they are ' just edging it '
220 odd behind.....9 wickets standing.....world class batsmen to come.....good pitch.....inconsistent bowling, possibly lacking a spinner.

The average first innings score in Test Cricket history is 327. This includes the first 80-90 years of uncovered wickets. Sticky dogs, vicious turners, matting, lightning quick, underprepared, overprepared....you name it....they got it. How....in the name of Allah Oakman is 283 a par score? Its a good pitch and a bare minimum to try and win this Test was 350.
As usual, we flashed at everything, gave plenty of chances and were fortunate that they had a bad day in the slips. It was one-dimensional, non-percentage cricket. To be fair, they did well to get to 283 considering the amount of horrible shots and giveaways there were. This style of cricket will see the odd big innings, which usually involves quite an element of luck and the rest of the time, it will be cameo 20's/30's/40's scored in rapid time, before, sooner rather than later, one rash shot too many finds them out. It is one day cricket transferred to the Test arena.
T20 and 50/50 cricket sees bowlers relegated to the role of cannon fodder. Spectators ( many of whom are not cricket buffs ) come to see the ball slogged to all parts, with every improvised shot in the book. The bowler who takes 5-20 in this format is not a popular bunny.
The beauty of Test Cricket has always been the balance between bat and ball, over a number of days and in different conditions. It allows for every style of play. Sides were always built around the dashers and the more obdurate. Getting the balance right. The obdurate to cement and secure an innings. The dashers to keep the scoring rate up.
Boycott keeps being mentioned on here as an example of the more obdurate type of player. Well...if you call sound defence, good judgement outside off stump and the ability to put bad balls away and keep the score ticking over....fair enough. Technically sound, solid and there to give England a platform. Sometimes to dash as well, when the situation demanded.
This current England side is unbalanced in strategy. The emphasis is on everybody to go out and dash from the word go. By all means open with pinch hitters like Duckett and Crawley and followed by Moeen. You may reach 150-1, quickly but you cannot risk being 10-2...30-3....50-4 against good bowling. The cement in the middle should be Root and Brook. These are the class acts who need to knuckle down and play the percentages and get the big hundreds. If the first three have scored quickly, there is no pressure. They can build steadily. They are good enough to score quickly later in their innings against tiring bowlers. Too often these two really good players are chucking it away in pursuit of rapid runs.
The aim is 250 for 3 or 4.....then the game changers ( Stokes and Bairstow ) can follow and if one comes off, you are going to get 400+ A first innings in a Test is crucial. It has to be plotted and planned and timed and executed.
Its not a major change in strategy. Its trying to balance out your resources more. Build it around these two. These are the gems. The King and the Crown Prince. Don't let them waste their talent playing too loosely. There are plenty of others to dash and try and take the game away from the opposition. A crowd sitting there for six hours enjoy different phases of play. A flying start followed by consolidation followed by a strong finish to the day.
The Aussies haven't been forced into percentage cricket....they have decided to play that way. They know England are taking big risks all the time and know they will offer plenty of chances. In the world of top professional sport, fine margins usually play a big part and Australia have tipped them in their direction by hanging on in there and waiting for England to overcommit. The last 7 wickets crashed for 99 yesterday with no thought to change in strategy. It was one dimensional biff bang wallop. The rest of the Test will see which style prevails but I know for sure that the Aussies will sense their chance, get their heads down and look to create a strong position.
.

Beautifully put.

 

[DJ NOBO]

As a cricket fan since the late '60's I cannot waste the time.
We got a par score in good time today and Australia are just edging it.

We were at least a hundred below par . Aussies are a distance ahead.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Well this is exciting.

 

[banjo]

Sucking the life out of this game.

 

[vegster]

Well this is exciting.

No Moeen and SO much time in the game left so they will be happy to bat us out of the game and watch us throw our wickets away in the second innings. Could be like the bad old days when Gavaskar batted for about two days it seemed.