The 72 unite against Academy proposals - The video.

[little al]

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[beorhthelm]

46, over half of the 72 clubs, voted for the change. i'm not convinced its such a bad deal.

 

[little al]

46, over half of the 72 clubs, voted for the change. i'm not convinced its such a bad deal.

Bullied into it.

Wait until your academy starts to produce quality (sic) players and you are raped of them by the big boys.

 

[beorhthelm]

ive read the site associated, i fail to see how they've been "bullied" into something for the sake of 75k each on the current arrangement.

im sure its not good for all clubs, but looking for some reasoned points why its so bad. if a club sets up a Catagory 1 acedemy, they get the same benefits whether they are Arsenal or Accrington, or are only certain clubs allowed to setup acedemies?

 

[Palace4ever]

ive read the site associated, i fail to see how they've been "bullied" into something for the sake of 75k each on the current arrangement.

im sure its not good for all clubs, but looking for some reasoned points why its so bad. if a club sets up a Catagory 1 acedemy, they get the same benefits whether they are Arsenal or Accrington, or are only certain clubs allowed to setup acedemies?

If you took a look at exactly how expensive and how much infastructure it requires for a category 1 academy, you'd see that only the big boys will get that status (at least in the next 5 years anyway). It is like saying that anyone can join an exclusive club in London once you've paid the £1m joining fee...

Anyway, the real point of the matter is that many clubs not just had this years 'solidarity payment' threatened by not agreeing to the Premier Leagues proposal, but future ones were at threat too. For many of the 72 league clubs (not least those in the Championship) that equated to a lot more than £70k. Those who do not rely on producing youth to sell on to survive will have seen the possible payment freeze from the Prem as a bigger threat to their sustainability than these changes. However, these changes will be catastrophic to those that voted against (and to a lesser extent the other clubs too).

It is not just the fact that the top clubs can come along and pick the best youth products without a care about the fee (as it will be minimal) but more the fact that once the majority don't cut it at that level, they'll be sold back to the football league clubs where they would have been anyway. Getting robbed twice! This will be a nice little earner for the Premiership teams mainly because the FA didn't want to set up and run a national academy to improve our nations footballers.

The other impact on the FL clubs is that when a player shows any promise, the club will have to offer him a full scholarship when he reaches 14 just to get any money back at all for him. Some clubs may not be in a position to afford that on a player that may not make it, yet are scared to lose a good player that they have invested time and money in for nothing!

The fact that the wider public have been lied to about it benefitting the England team just adds insult to injury and a quick look into the agreement shows that this applies to all youngsters regardless of which national team they qualify for. That shows that it really has naff all to do with improving our national side.

Surely with Bloom suggesting that he'll spend millions setting you up an academy, it seems odd that your lot voted in favour of a change that 'll mean you'll likely lose your best prospects for peanuts years before they even get near your first team. It'll be some years before the likes of Palace and BHA can go for cat 1 status, by which stage some damage may have been done.

It really is getting towards the time where we say R.I.P. to the true nature of the beautiful game in this country.

 

[little al]

If you took a look at exactly how expensive and how much infastructure it requires for a category 1 academy, you'd see that only the big boys will get that status (at least in the next 5 years anyway). It is like saying that anyone can join an exclusive club in London once you've paid the £1m joining fee...

Anyway, the real point of the matter is that many clubs not just had this years 'solidarity payment' threatened by not agreeing to the Premier Leagues proposal, but future ones were at threat too. For many of the 72 league clubs (not least those in the Championship) that equated to a lot more than £70k. Those who do not rely on producing youth to sell on to survive will have seen the possible payment freeze from the Prem as a bigger threat to their sustainability than these changes. However, these changes will be catastrophic to those that voted against (and to a lesser extent the other clubs too).

It is not just the fact that the top clubs can come along and pick the best youth products without a care about the fee (as it will be minimal) but more the fact that once the majority don't cut it at that level, they'll be sold back to the football league clubs where they would have been anyway. Getting robbed twice! This will be a nice little earner for the Premiership teams mainly because the FA didn't want to set up and run a national academy to improve our nations footballers.

The other impact on the FL clubs is that when a player shows any promise, the club will have to offer him a full scholarship when he reaches 14 just to get any money back at all for him. Some clubs may not be in a position to afford that on a player that may not make it, yet are scared to lose a good player that they have invested time and money in for nothing!

The fact that the wider public have been lied to about it benefitting the England team just adds insult to injury and a quick look into the agreement shows that this applies to all youngsters regardless of which national team they qualify for. That shows that it really has naff all to do with improving our national side.

Surely with Bloom suggesting that he'll spend millions setting you up an academy, it seems odd that your lot voted in favour of a change that 'll mean you'll likely lose your best prospects for peanuts years before they even get near your first team. It'll be some years before the likes of Palace and BHA can go for cat 1 status, by which stage some damage may have been done.

It really is getting towards the time where we say R.I.P. to the true nature of the beautiful game in this country.

Great post.

 

[beorhthelm]

Surely with Bloom suggesting that he'll spend millions setting you up an academy, it seems odd that your lot voted in favour of a change that 'll mean you'll likely lose your best prospects for peanuts years before they even get near your first team.

i would summise this is because Bloom aims for us to be setting up a top academy. if its such an advantage, it would suit smaller/lower clubs to invest in that. Id have thought any club with wealthy backers and a view to the long term would do the same

be interesting to see which way each club voted, is there a list somewhere?

 

[Hotchilidog]

I won't quote the post, but Palace4ever is absolutely right. This whole deal stinks and the fact that greedy scumbags in the PL threatened to withhold payments is an utter disgrace.

If Premier league teams can basically pick up decent youngsters from FL teams for a pittance what incentive is there for clubs such as ours to develop any young players? I am very disappointed we voted for this, and reading between the lines of Ken Brown's words on the matter we did so reluctantly. They only beneficiaries are the rich clubs at the top of the PL.

 

[Palace4ever]

As I said before it is not as easy as saying - here's the money, build me a category 1 academy. It takes years of infastructure, local authority support, inter-academy education (and links to relevant and appropriate local schools) a training system that guarantees 10,000 hours of contact time and a pedigree of producing youngsters that will mean kids and families will pick that academy over another. It is pointless laying down the infastructure for such a venture if no kids pick your academy (by your I am talking in generalisations, not specifically about BHA). Not to mention extortionately expensive.

Even though our board have said they'll do everything in their power to get us a category 1 academy I still worry that it may not happen, and if it does it could be a bit late. I feel that we have as good a chance as any non-top 6 club of getting one of these, but there is no guarantee. For me that is still beside the point. If we could have the cat 1 system with the new proposals or leave the system as it is I'd chose keeping the status quo. Even if we benefit from the new system (unlikely) I see the damage done to so many other clubs who cannot benefit in any way, shape or form and feel awful for them.

Despite your teams recent upturn in fortunes - it should not be a case of 'I'm alright Jack'. It was not so long ago that you were looking for all FL fans to unite to save BHA. The spirit of that time is still as vital as ever even if money-bags Bloom sees the opportunity to be one of the 'big boys'.

 

[beorhthelm]

For me that is still beside the point. If we could have the cat 1 system with the new proposals or leave the system as it is I'd chose keeping the status quo.

its that a case of accepting medicore facilities, just because they are local? there seems to be alot of focus here on what it might mean for individual clubs, what does the new set up mean for the actual talented youth coming through?

im saying alright jack, just trying to understand the wider debate. as i say, 46 clubs voted for it. how many youth players do go to the Premiership for big money (even relativly) under the current system? is that proof the current system is in favor of the smaller/lower clubs, who can keep hold of the talent for a few years (in which case clubs arent going to lose out financially), or shows that the big clubs are already getting around the system and only bringing through their own players (im thinking Arsenal and others recruiting overseas).

 

[Braders]

out of curiousity , how well is this going - bar the odd fan for solidarity most the people I've seen talking about this are Palace and Brighton?

 

[Samej]

If you took a look at exactly how expensive and how much infastructure it requires for a category 1 academy, you'd see that only the big boys will get that status (at least in the next 5 years anyway). It is like saying that anyone can join an exclusive club in London once you've paid the £1m joining fee...

Anyway, the real point of the matter is that many clubs not just had this years 'solidarity payment' threatened by not agreeing to the Premier Leagues proposal, but future ones were at threat too. For many of the 72 league clubs (not least those in the Championship) that equated to a lot more than £70k. Those who do not rely on producing youth to sell on to survive will have seen the possible payment freeze from the Prem as a bigger threat to their sustainability than these changes. However, these changes will be catastrophic to those that voted against (and to a lesser extent the other clubs too).

It is not just the fact that the top clubs can come along and pick the best youth products without a care about the fee (as it will be minimal) but more the fact that once the majority don't cut it at that level, they'll be sold back to the football league clubs where they would have been anyway. Getting robbed twice! This will be a nice little earner for the Premiership teams mainly because the FA didn't want to set up and run a national academy to improve our nations footballers.

The other impact on the FL clubs is that when a player shows any promise, the club will have to offer him a full scholarship when he reaches 14 just to get any money back at all for him. Some clubs may not be in a position to afford that on a player that may not make it, yet are scared to lose a good player that they have invested time and money in for nothing!

The fact that the wider public have been lied to about it benefitting the England team just adds insult to injury and a quick look into the agreement shows that this applies to all youngsters regardless of which national team they qualify for. That shows that it really has naff all to do with improving our national side.

Surely with Bloom suggesting that he'll spend millions setting you up an academy, it seems odd that your lot voted in favour of a change that 'll mean you'll likely lose your best prospects for peanuts years before they even get near your first team. It'll be some years before the likes of Palace and BHA can go for cat 1 status, by which stage some damage may have been done.

It really is getting towards the time where we say R.I.P. to the true nature of the beautiful game in this country.

This

 

[Braders]

( I also agree with Palace4ever , must stop agreeing with the lot up the road - they might start thinking they're talking sense all the time )

 

[Hotchilidog]

its that a case of accepting medicore facilities, just because they are local? there seems to be alot of focus here on what it might mean for individual clubs, what does the new set up mean for the actual talented youth coming through?

It means that if they are wanted by a big club they can go for a set fee with the team that produced that talent getting very little back in return for it's investment. Currently fees have to be negotiated at a tribunal and are significantly higher than the fees proposed in this deal.

To be honest, for the kids this may turn out to be a good deal, it's a bad deal for the clubs though. It just entrenches even further the gap between the haves and have nots in this country. The way the PL irresponsibly chucks money around is having a devastating effect on the rest of the football pyramid and I find this a cause for great sadness.

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

The campaign is based around the 72 clubs uniting, but unfortunately it only seems to be the ones with existing academies that fully appreciate what effect this may have on each club. And it's those clubs with existing academies that stand to lose the most. I can't see a huge backing for the protest on the Saturday as to most lower league clubs it simply won't have registered as much of an issue. They continue to get their yearly bonus to balance out that if in the very small chance they produce a star, they might lose him on the cheap.

 

[Palace4ever]

its that a case of accepting medicore facilities, just because they are local? there seems to be alot of focus here on what it might mean for individual clubs, what does the new set up mean for the actual talented youth coming through?

No - what I meant was have an academy system that is graded through varying categories (with higher categories having more 'rights') or leave it as is. Palace this week made a link between our academy and a great local school. Always strive to improve the facilities, but the system as a whole does not need changing. The current system works fine at producing youngsters (IMO) but the problem comes with their path to the first team at the highest level being blocked by big money signings from overseas.

The pressure to succeed (financially speaking) means that many managers won't take a risk on a youngster because of their propensity to make mistakes early in their careers. Mistakes = loss of points. This results in them being given very limited first team chances in competitive matches. If anything, the new proposals will make this worse as now these players will not be getting game time at the clubs who were producing them to begin with.

Case in point, John Bostock. I know that we seem to go on about this, but this lad literally had the world at his feet. Our youngest ever player at 15. He had skill, strength, shooting ability etc. Had he had three / four years in our team and progressed how he was going till that point, the regular first team experience he'd have got would be making him a currently very sought after 19/20 year old. He could then go onto the top of the domestic game and possible international honours would be the next step. As it stands, he thought that the Spurs academy would offer him more. It hasn't.

A loan to Brentford and Hull later and he has never got as far as the Spurs bench for a competitive game. He'll probably end up league 1 level for the remainder of his career. He should have been an England star in the mould of Wilshere et al, but instead left too soon for pittance, and stagnated. This will happen time and time again whilst the big clubs cherry pick the most promising 50 kids from around the country in the hope that 1 makes it. There'll be 49 of them scratching around the lower leagues before long, when had the nurturing been done correctly at their actual club they could have made it to the top league in their own time.

This entire proposal is based on the assumption that the top clubs have the best coaches and coaching systems. It is just not true. Take a look at the current national side. The majority of the team started their careers outside the top league!

EPPP, a ridiculous scheme dreamt up by an out of touch panel of ex-footballers and pundits. Had they gone around the country and consulted with the most successful academies in the country, I am sure the experts could have put a better propsal together to improve the national game (if that really is the objective in all this).

 

[Palace4ever]

The other galling thing (I forgot to mention) was that it is not just that you get a paltry sum - there is a maximum 5% sell on fee for future sales. Whilst the current system may see some unfair tribunal fees set (see Bostock example) there is a good sell-on fee clause. Had Bostock done the business for Spurs and they sold him on for £20m, we'd have got a good £3-5m out of that deal as a 'thank you' for putting the hard yards in when he was younger. The same player example in the new system would mean we'd get a maximum of £1m for him.

Crazy, crazy times ahead...

 

[Palace4ever]

The campaign is based around the 72 clubs uniting, but unfortunately it only seems to be the ones with existing academies that fully appreciate what effect this may have on each club. And it's those clubs with existing academies that stand to lose the most. I can't see a huge backing for the protest on the Saturday as to most lower league clubs it simply won't have registered as much of an issue. They continue to get their yearly bonus to balance out that if in the very small chance they produce a star, they might lose him on the cheap.

Sadly I agree. The FL is more divided than any other organisation I can think of. There is no way we'll get close to 72 clubs uniting. I suppose all we can do is try, however.

 

[mcshane in the 79th]

Sadly I agree. The FL is more divided than any other organisation I can think of. There is no way we'll get close to 72 clubs uniting. I suppose all we can do is try, however.

Spot on, just keep spreading the word and educating people on what it will actually mean in the long term for the football league clubs. Protest, Protest, Protest.

 

[beorhthelm]

Case in point, John Bostock. ...

now im confused, because this illustrates that the current system is flawed anyway. a tragic case to be sure, but doesnt say anything about the new.

though it does highlight something - doesnt really matter much what system is in place if "bigger" clubs can turn a young players head, then they dont develop as the risks at the higher level are too great. probably means we need better education of players to make them understand the wider implications and impact on their career.