[Politics] Stop the boats

[Eric the meek]

Here's the BBC article on Suella Braverman's plan:

Suella Braverman: No flights before election under PM's Rwanda plan

"Tinkering with a failed plan" will not achieve the government's aims, the former home secretary says.

www.bbc.co.uk

The highlight for me is this:

'Mrs Braverman said the PM's proposed legislation should ignore "the entirety" of the Human Rights Act and the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), as well as other relevant international obligations including the Refugee Convention.'

I'm all for self-belief, but after you've been sacked, and you then advocate dismissing British, European and International human rights laws to drive your project in, even though it is no longer your project, then perhaps it is time for a little humility.

 

[The Clamp]

So are you against people doing okay and being happy? Are you against people who strive to be better. It's not politics, it's just hard word work and determination. I started with fck all and it didn't matter to me what government was in charge, I just did my best and came out ok.

A true sTory.

Ahh, you’re one of those.

Okay

 

[BLOCK F]

Of course you're welcome to your opinion as am I. One Nation, Broad Church etc etc are just PR stunts to fool people but at the end of the day, those Tories in power are in it just to line their own pockets and those of their friends and donors. Their handling of the pandemic surely is evidence of that!!

Hmm, so anyone who stands for Parliament, or Local Government in all its guises under a Tory banner is only in it ‘to line their own pockets and those of their friends and donors.’ It is a view, but one that I disagree with. By your reckoning then, all us who have voted Tory have been fooled by PR stunts and are either pretty low in the brain cell count area or are utterly selfish bastards. Again, a sweeping assumption and not a little bit patronising as well. I would never be so bold/foolish to insult people who don’t agree with my political inclinations and that includes my sister!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Hmm, so anyone who stands for Parliament, or Local Government in all its guises under a Tory banner is only in it ‘to line their own pockets and those of their friends and donors.’ It is a view, but one that I disagree with. By your reckoning then, all us who have voted Tory have been fooled by PR stunts and are either pretty low in the brain cell count area or are utterly selfish bastards. Again, a sweeping assumption and not a little bit patronising as well. I would never be so bold/foolish to insult people who don’t agree with my political inclinations and that includes my sister!

Sir Winston Churchill outlined the duties of a politician. The Whip system makes a mockery of this, and decent Tory MPs had the whip removed (over 21 of them) and others were deselected or stood down, like Sir Nicholas Soames.

That is no way to run a country, so anyone who still voted Conservative in December 2019, knew exactly what they were getting.
Tories are very good at loyalty, but is it because they actually believe in the policies, blackmail or lining their own pockets?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Yes, that's how referendums work. The side with most VOTES wins.

Most sensible people organising a referendum on something so fundamental and controversial would not be so daft as to have it working on a simple majority. Plenty of people said this was a mistake BEFORE the vote actually took place.

and one reason for that is just to be sure that it really is what people want. If it were 55% to 45%, or 60% to 40%, there wouldn’t really be much room to argue. The % vote to leave was less than 52% - people sometimes quote it as 52% to 48%, but it wasn’t that high, within the “margin of error“ had the %vote been higher.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

But there have been surveys that showed that stopping the boats is the population's main worry. I suppose by implication you will now claim that the arrival of thousands of illegal and unchecked immigrants every year is something that the majority of the British people relish.

Where are these surveys, then?

 

[The Clamp]

I think whatever side our politics come down on, everyone on here would agree Brexit is a disaster.

With that as a given, I can understand why those that voted Leave are probably angry more for being lied to and being made fools of by the Leave campaign. I get that.

Brexit has ruined the U.K. I can certainly understand the anger from the Leavers. Realising you have been conned is unpleasant. I can even sympathise a bit.

Having said that, anyone who voted Leave and still thinks the Tory’s are worth voting for in the next GE is foolish, and deserve what they get.

 

[The Clamp]

But there have been surveys that showed that stopping the boats is the population's main worry. I suppose by implication you will now claim that the arrival of thousands of illegal and unchecked immigrants every year is something that the majority of the British people relish.

Which surveys?

 

[Zeberdi]

I'm all for self-belief, but after you've been sacked, and you then advocate dismissing British, European and International human rights laws to drive your project in, even though it is no longer your project, then perhaps it is time for a little humility.

I think we’ve had a narrow escape tbh - Ms Braverman’s rhetoric since she became HS was absolutely BNPesque of the first order - her vile hate speeches has undermined the cohesion of society more than the multi-culturalism and so called ‘illegal immigration’ she blames for that lack of cohesion.

This speech beggared belief

'Unfit for office': Suella Braverman's extreme speech sparks outrage

SUELLA Braverman has been attacked over “deeply ignorant and offensive” comments after a speech in which she claimed multiculturalism has…

www.thenational.scot

I think our society has been made richer and more creative personally because of a history of cultural diversity - football, agriculture and health have benefitted from (and are dependent on) an immigrant/visa based workforce - the fears created by nationalist and far right narratives has blinded people to the positive aspects of immigration. The racial tensions caused in this country are primarily triggered because of political and institutionalised stereotyping, dog whistling and overt discrimination - yes, resources are scarce, the pressures on housing and healthcare are acute but there are far better ways to manage our public resources IMO than sending legitimate asylum seekers to Rwanda or letting people drown in the seas in their thousands in a desperate attempt for a better life.

 

[The Clamp]

If anyone of us has said publicly what that loathe-some arse did before remembrance weekend and it had resulted in what we saw last weekend, we’d be being interviewed by police.

 

[GT49er]

Most sensible people organising a referendum on something so fundamental and controversial would not be so daft as to have it working on a simple majority. Plenty of people said this was a mistake BEFORE the vote actually took place.

and one reason for that is just to be sure that it really is what people want. If it were 55% to 45%, or 60% to 40%, there wouldn’t really be much room to argue. The % vote to leave was less than 52% - people sometimes quote it as 52% to 48%, but it wasn’t that high, within the “margin of error“ had the %vote been higher.

Rigging it in advance then - ''We're not going to respect the will of the majority if it goes against us."

 

[Eric the meek]

I think we’ve had a narrow escape tbh - Ms Braverman’s rhetoric since she became HS was absolutely BNPesque of the first order - her vile hate speeches has undermined the cohesion of society more than the multi-culturalism and so called ‘illegal immigration’ she blames for the that lack of cohesion.

This speech beggared belief

'Unfit for office': Suella Braverman's extreme speech sparks outrage

SUELLA Braverman has been attacked over “deeply ignorant and offensive” comments after a speech in which she claimed multiculturalism has…

www.thenational.scot

I think our society has been made richer and more creative personally because of a history of cultural diversity - football, agriculture and health have benefitted from (and are dependent on) an immigrant/visa based workforce - the fears created by nationalist and far right narratives has blinded people to the positive aspects of immigration. The racial tensions caused in this country are primarily triggered because of political and institutionalised stereotyping, dog whistling and overt discrimination - yes, resources are scarce, the pressures on housing and healthcare are acute but there are far better ways to manage our public resources IMO than sending legitimate asylum seekers to Rwanda or letting people drown in the seas in their thousands in a desperate attempt for a better life.

That's the first time I've come across that speech.

I'm drawn to this:

'“People who choose to come across the Channel illegally from another safe country have already showed contempt for our laws,” she said.

That's 'showed contempt for our laws'.

She has just written in the Telegraph, advocating that to push the Rwanda solution through, we ignore "the entirety" of the Human Rights Act and the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), as well as other relevant international obligations including the Refugee Convention.

Take a moment to consider the supreme irony, contradiction and double standards, all of which appear to sail over her head.

 

[The Clamp]

Rigging it in advance then - ''We're not going to respect the will of the majority if it goes against us."

It’s how referendums are supposed to work. A so called 52-48 result should not stand in such a vital decision.

Personally I think leavers were lucky to get a referendum at all. It was a stupid idea from the start.

If you asked a room full of 6 yr olds whether they want broccoli or Haribo for dinner, I think you’d get an Haribo majority. Because kids are stupid.

 

[drew]

Hmm, so anyone who stands for Parliament, or Local Government in all its guises under a Tory banner is only in it ‘to line their own pockets and those of their friends and donors.’ It is a view, but one that I disagree with. By your reckoning then, all us who have voted Tory have been fooled by PR stunts and are either pretty low in the brain cell count area or are utterly selfish bastards. Again, a sweeping assumption and not a little bit patronising as well. I would never be so bold/foolish to insult people who don’t agree with my political inclinations and that includes my sister!

No, you might not have been fooled by PR stunts, you might just be a selfish greedy bastard who wants to pay no taxes and have less public sector services because, as Tories often say, the individual knows better as to how to spend their money than the state!!! The people that were fooled were those that believed Cameron and his 'one nation' toryism who then went and did a major reorganisation of the NHS despite saying they wouldn't, that cancelled Surestart, that stopped investment in crumbling schools etc etc. Or maybe some were fooled into thinking Brexit was the answer or that all the problems in this country are caused by Johnny foreigner. Or cutting over 10k police and then having to recruit 10k more because they f***ed up. The list is endless.

And as for being patronising, how many times to the right bang on about the 'looney left' or that they are anti woke etc etc.

 

[schmunk]

The Beeb does as it’s told by number 10, as long as number 10 appoints the Chair & directors.

I'm not sure Number 10 told the Beeb to report Braverman's criticism of Number 10 policy...

 

[BBassic]

It’s how referendums are supposed to work. A so called 52-48 result should not stand in such a vital decision.

Personally I think leavers were lucky to get a referendum at all. It was a stupid idea from the start.

If you asked a room full of 6 yr olds whether they want broccoli or Haribo for dinner, I think you’d get an Haribo majority. Because kids are stupid.

"The majority of children who voted, which wasn't a great deal as most of them were outside staring at the sun, unsurprisingly elected to have Haribo for dinner. It was only after they'd scribbled their name in the box that they were told exactly what kind of Haribo they'd voted for and it ended up being one of those naff bags of really chewy strawberry things that nobody really likes. And there wasn't enough to go around."

 

[The Clamp]

"The majority of children who voted, which wasn't a great deal as most of them were outside staring at the sun, unsurprisingly elected to have Haribo for dinner. It was only after they'd scribbled their name in the box that they were told exactly what kind of Haribo they'd voted for and it ended up being one of those naff bags of really chewy strawberry things that nobody really likes. And there wasn't enough to go around."

And all their teeth fell out.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Rigging it in advance then - ''We're not going to respect the will of the majority if it goes against us."

Nigel Farage said exactly the same.

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

Nigel Farage: Narrow Remain win may lead to second referendum

There could be unstoppable demand for a second EU referendum if Remain wins by only a narrow margin on 23 June, says UKIP leader Nigel Farage.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm not sure Number 10 told the Beeb to report Braverman's criticism of Number 10 policy...

It's all deflection from what is really going on. Create as much chaos as you can said Boris Johnson.

When was the last time the covid enquiry was reported? 4 days, 5 days, a week?

 

[Eric the meek]

Breaking stop the boats news:

Record numbers of small boats are forecast as migrants bring forward their sea crossings so they can arrive in good time to watch Nigel Farage on I'm a celebrity.