Steve Sidwell

[sussex_guy2k2]

I neither like nor dislike him as I dont know him but as a player I think he is poor and offers us nothing IMHO he is Div 2 standard possibly Div 1 and that would be the reason Chelsea saw no future for him, not that that is a guarantee for the future. If somebody could point out his plus points I would be interested. He is weak in the air, cant tackle and cant pass more than 3 yds so what is left.

You're right. Being released by Chelsea means absolutely zilch about a player's ability to perform for Brighton. I'm glad you recognised that and it's a redundant point, as is your claim that he's "div 2 standard" as if that's even a quantifiable thing rather than a random biased claim that you've sprouted to back up an already weak point.

And you're right, it is a humble opinion. And one based in ignorance. Just a few statistics for you. Last season in his 23 starts and 9 sub appearances, Ince made the second most tackles per game of anyone in our squad. He made the third most interceptions. He made the fifth most clearances. He also got 2 assists which was only bettered by 6 players within the squad - only Colunga got 4 assists and the other five players ahead of him got 3 assists each. Admittedly his pass completion rate wasn't brilliant at only 80% but then again Kayal only completed 81% of his passes and many would consider passing his strength...

Now understandably, his numbers have dropped off this year, but as 2 seconds online would tell you (or, you know, thinking about it logically) that's because he's started 1 game and been a sub in 11... How any player can build a rhythm with that little amount of football is beyond me. That fans are saying he's not good enough when there's evidence to the contrary reflects badly on them too.

Basically, there's a player there to be developed for a more progressive, less pragmatic manager than Hughton, and I find it worrying as a supporter that we're disregarding a young player in Ince who still has potential to develop on the basis that we want to bring in a 33 year old who only has 5 starts and 8 sub appearances to his name in 2 years!

 

[NooBHA]

I neither like nor dislike him as I dont know him but as a player I think he is poor and offers us nothing IMHO he is Div 2 standard possibly Div 1 and that would be the reason Chelsea saw no future for him, not that that is a guarantee for the future. If somebody could point out his plus points I would be interested. He is weak in the air, cant tackle and cant pass more than 3 yds so what is left. The only plus I have seen is when he loses the ball after making a tackle he usually wins it back again.

BG - I think you are 100% wrong and 100% correct in what you say.

Your assessment of what Ince gives you I feel is correct - However, in a 3 man central midfield that might be adequate to be a decent player. I dont really know what system Hypia played but if he played with a 3 man cental midfield then Ince may well have looked half decent.

CH on the other hand prefers a 2 man central midfield with 2 wide players. Ince looks out of place in that system because he isn't mobile enough to cover the ground required.

A perfect example of something similar is Paul Pogba. He struggled in a 2 man central midfield system when at Man Utd he found it difficult to even break into the team. Now in a 3 man central midfield he thrives at Juventus and has become one of the most sought after players in the world.

Some people just don't fit into certain systems and in those instances they either move on or they continue to struggle. There is a place for Ince at Brighton because he is often used by CH to try and close out games when in the lead and he brings him in as the 3rd central midfielder and that has worked very well, he is comfortable in that role - Not all the time but for the most part it has worked when defending a lead late on.

 

[8ace]

I dont really know what system Hypia played

A shite one.

 

[NooBHA]

You're right. Being released by Chelsea means absolutely zilch about a player's ability to perform for Brighton. I'm glad you recognised that and it's a redundant point, as is your claim that he's "div 2 standard" as if that's even a quantifiable thing rather than a random biased claim that you've sprouted to back up an already weak point.

And you're right, it is a humble opinion. And one based in ignorance. Just a few statistics for you. Last season in his 23 starts and 9 sub appearances, Ince made the second most tackles per game of anyone in our squad. He made the third most interceptions. He made the fifth most clearances. He also got 2 assists which was only bettered by 6 players within the squad - only Colunga got 4 assists and the other five players ahead of him got 3 assists each. Admittedly his pass completion rate wasn't brilliant at only 80% but then again Kayal only completed 81% of his passes and many would consider passing his strength...

Now understandably, his numbers have dropped off this year, but as 2 seconds online would tell you (or, you know, thinking about it logically) that's because he's started 1 game and been a sub in 11... How any player can build a rhythm with that little amount of football is beyond me. That fans are saying he's not good enough when there's evidence to the contrary reflects badly on them too.

Basically, there's a player there to be developed for a more progressive, less pragmatic manager than Hughton, and I find it worrying as a supporter that we're disregarding a young player in Ince who still has potential to develop on the basis that we want to bring in a 33 year old who only has 5 starts and 8 sub appearances to his name in 2 years!

You cant start selecting the parts of CH that tickle your ears - Yes there probably are more progressve managers and less pragmatic managers than him and yes they may have satisfied your desire to see Rowan Ince play every week.

However, those progressive managers may or may not have come with the knowledge and experience of this division which he came with.

They may or may not have come with the scouting network which he came with which has transformed the squad

And they may of may not have been able to turn the clubs fortunes around the way that he has.

But one thing you cant do is cut him in half and say I want this part from you but not that part. When you sign him up you have to rely on all that he does or not at all and so far there have been a lot more positives than negatives

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

If somebody could point out his plus points I would be interested.

He doesn't bore the pants off thousands on NSC

 

[BensGrandad]

He doesn't bore the pants off thousands on NSC

Has somebody forced you to read what I posted?

 

[NooBHA]

He doesn't bore the pants off thousands on NSC

He is Physically strong and doesn't give the ball away to much, albeit he passes short. He follows instructions well and can play a rigid position without allowing himself to be drawn out of position. He does have assets BG. It is just that others in the squad have more assets suited to the system that CH has used this season

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Has somebody forced you to read what I posted?

As you post on most threads it's hard to miss you.

I have never put anyone on ignore - so carry on.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

He is Physically strong and doesn't give the ball away to much, albeit he passes short. He follows instructions well and can play a rigid position without allowing himself to be drawn out of position. He does have assets BG. It is just that others in the squad have more assets suited to the system that CH has used this season

Thank you NooBHA I happen to agree with you but you are on the wrong BG post

 

[NooBHA]

Thank you NooBHA I happen to agree with you but you are on the wrong BG post

I know. I noticed that after my post

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

I know. I noticed that after my post

BG has that effect

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

You cant start selecting the parts of CH that tickle your ears - Yes there probably are more progressve managers and less pragmatic managers than him and yes they may have satisfied your desire to see Rowan Ince play every week.

However, those progressive managers may or may not have come with the knowledge and experience of this division which he came with.

They may or may not have come with the scouting network which he came with which has transformed the squad

And they may of may not have been able to turn the clubs fortunes around the way that he has.

But one thing you cant do is cut him in half and say I want this part from you but not that part. When you sign him up you have to rely on all that he does or not at all and so far there have been a lot more positives than negatives

Where have I said I want Ince to play every week? I haven't, in fact, said that at any stage in any one of my posts on this thread or any other. I've also acknowledged that Sidwell was (and may still prove to be) a very good player, albeit he's not played a lot recently. But I can also expect Hughton to try to develop players at the club if he's going to stay here long term - that isn't cutting him in half - choosing to sign Sidwell is a decision that shows he's doing his best to avoid developing talent that has already proven itself and that has longer term potential.

The long and the short of it is you're having a totally different argument to the one I'm having... But I appreciate your positivity and support for our team so

 

[BensGrandad]

i fail to see how anybody can criticize CH for signing Steve Sidwell a proven player at this level and above it is now up to others to try to reach his standard and at 33 years old being fit still has a couple of playing years left. He is the ideal complement to Kayal and Stephens and hopefully will act as an inspiration to the younger players.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

i fail to see how anybody can criticize CH for signing Steve Sidwell a proven player at this level and above it is now up to others to try to reach his standard and at 33 years old being fit still has a couple of playing years left. He is the ideal complement to Kayal and Stephens and hopefully will act as an inspiration to the younger players.

Do you have a few during the evening

 

[BensGrandad]

If I did I would be talking the same s..t as you do so I dont bother.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

If I did I would be talking the same s..t as you do so I dont bother.

Considering some people think that's all you talk why do you bother at all

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

i fail to see how anybody can criticize CH for signing Steve Sidwell a proven player at this level and above it is now up to others to try to reach his standard and at 33 years old being fit still has a couple of playing years left. He is the ideal complement to Kayal and Stephens and hopefully will act as an inspiration to the younger players.

There are so many flaws in your post yet again. But if you still don't understand what they are then you never will.

 

[BensGrandad]

There are so many flaws in your post yet again. But if you still don't understand what they are then you never will.

It is an open non biased assessment of signing of Sidwell which I think will be a good signing.

 

[NooBHA]

Considering some people think that's all you talk why do you bother at all

I think BG talks quite a lot of sense on here sometimes BUT then like al lot of us do, including myself he goes off on a Tangent with some of his posts and says the weirdest things, although I must concede. BG does do the''wierd'' better than any of us..............Sorry BG

 

[Sheebo]

Not sure if it's been on NSC but some random ish Twitter account said we'd parted company with Holla last Friday. Not seen anything since. Would be a random one To 'make up' & surely no smoke etc..?