[Football] Southgate - go or stay?

[Herr Tubthumper]

Didn’t watch it, but on results it would appear Southgate is weak. First sign of serious opposition and we fail.

To be fair this is how it’s been for a long time. I saw a stat at the start of the last tournament which stated England hadn’t beaten a top 10 ranked team in normal time in the knockout stages for something like 3 decades. This did improve under Southgate as Denmark were literally ranked 10th when they were beaten in the Euros. I’m not making this a case for keeping Southgate btw.

England just don’t seem to have the big game mentality which other nations do; I have no idea why

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

England just don’t seem to have the big game mentality which other nations do; I have no idea why

Football is 90 plus unpredictable minutes, we’re as mentally strong as anyone and equally mentally weak as anyone else, people make too much of England’s supposed lack of big game mentality, that squad couldn’t have more self belief, full of mentally strong characters.

 

[Brovion]

To be fair this is how it’s been for a long time. I saw a stat at the start of the last tournament which stated England hadn’t beaten a top 10 ranked team in normal time in the knockout stages for something like 3 decades. This did improve under Southgate as Denmark were literally ranked 10th when they were beaten in the Euros. I’m not making this a case for keeping Southgate btw.

England just don’t seem to have the big game mentality which other nations do; I have no idea why

I think actually the France game is perhaps the only game I've seen since 1966 where you can't really play the 'lack of big game mentality' card (which I agree in the past has been a major factor). There was none of the 'rabbits-in headlights' impressions we normally see in the latter stage of a tournament where the frightened England players, with the weight of history bearing down on them, go into their shells and meekly succumb. They gave France a game and in the end they just weren't quite good enough.

EDIT: And I haven't voted in the poll as I'm not sure if it's 'Yes, I want him to stay', or 'Yes, I want him to go'.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Football is 90 plus unpredictable minutes, we’re as mentally strong as anyone and equally mentally weak as anyone else, people make too much of England’s supposed lack of big game mentality, that squad couldn’t have more self belief, full of mentally strong characters.

I think actually the France game is perhaps the only game I've seen since 1966 where you can't really play the 'lack of big game mentality' card (which I agree in the past has been a major factor). There was none of the 'rabbits-in headlights' impressions we normally see in the latter stage of a tournament where the frightened England players, with the weight of history bearing down on them, go into their shells and meekly succumb. They gave France a game and in the end they just weren't quite good enough.

EDIT: And I haven't voted in the poll as I'm not sure if it's 'Yes, I want him to stay', or 'Yes, I want him to go'.

Fair enough.

 

[nicko31]

Stay 100%, gap only 18 months. Unfinished biz, he'd be crazy to go now

 

[Swansman]

England just don’t seem to have the big game mentality which other nations do; I have no idea why

I think a lot of it comes down to your secondary national sport: the blame game. If Harry Kane scores that penalty, he's still oceans of football away from being the hero (since nothing but winning the whole thing is acceptable in a lot of eyes), but very close to being a "villain" like Southgate, Beckham, Seaman, the trio that missed penalties against Italy etc.

Roberto Baggio missed a penalty to lose the 1994 World Cup but he's still God over there. In the same tournament we had Jonas Thern sent off in the semi-final against Brazil but was welcomed as a King when he and the others came back after the bronze medal. Ronaldo had a poor 1998 World Cup final for Brazil but was still seen as a national hero when going into the 2002 WC.

The English players however know in any high-pressure situation what awaits them if they fail: months of bullying, years of blame. This puts a lot of extra pressure on decisive moments, like penalties. There's usually more to lose than to win.

 

[One Love]

If he goes I think there is like a 90% chance Steven Gerrard gets the job.

Think this was the FA's plan but it's not playing out.

They'll persuade Southgate to stay to hope that Gerrard and Lampard with more time can get some success.

I think Southgate will stay but is making everyone wait hoping that on reflection the fans will realise he's the best choice, especially the booers.

 

[JBizzle]

No idea what the poll options mean, but "stay"

 

[Dr Q]

would help if you posted a poll that made f***ing sense!!

 

[maltaseagull]

I think actually the France game is perhaps the only game I've seen since 1966 where you can't really play the 'lack of big game mentality' card (which I agree in the past has been a major factor). There was none of the 'rabbits-in headlights' impressions we normally see in the latter stage of a tournament where the frightened England players, with the weight of history bearing down on them, go into their shells and meekly succumb. They gave France a game and in the end they just weren't quite good enough.

EDIT: And I haven't voted in the poll as I'm not sure if it's 'Yes, I want him to stay', or 'Yes, I want him to go'.

I thought that we pretty much matched the French in all but taking chances.

As for the go or stay question, if the FA want an English or at least British coach, I am not sure who could do a better job among any possible candidates.

 

[Braggfan]

I think he should stay in terms of, he's done a fantastic job. But I wouldn't blame him if he left after the abuse he got lost year.

 

[Eeyore]

Clearly has the full support of the players. Which is the most important thing at that level.

I could understand if he left though. I wouldn't fancy being hounded by grizzling pack animals every time the form took a dip.

 

[Javeaseagull]

If Harry Maguires’ header is on target we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Good job he has never let England down then.

 

[El Presidente]

If Harry Maguires’ header is on target we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Good job he has never let England down then.

That's outrageous, he absolutely BOSSED Kiefer Moore and Haji Wright in the Wales and USA game. World Class as always is Harry.

 

[RandyWanger]

Time to go

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The sensible option, for all involved, is for him to stay until the end of his contract. By this time Potter will be available.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Clearly has the full support of the players. Which is the most important thing at that level.

I could understand if he left though. I wouldn't fancy being hounded by grizzling pack animals every time the form took a dip.

The England manager's job doesn't have to be a long term position. Take the England Women, while being a talented bunch they kept failing at the final hurdles at tournaments - until they turned to Wiegman who turned them into winners. It wasn't that Mark Sampson or Phil Neville did bad jobs, both contributed to their rise, but it was Wiegman who turned them from plucky finalists to champions.

Southgate has had 3 major tournaments, and the mentality hasn't changed really, for one reason or another we can't get a big game over the line. He's done a fantastic job, he's bought some brilliant players through, but I don't see why it's a 6 year + role?

We have St George's Park now, a much better connection between England youth pathways, and nurturing future talent. Like Brighton, much of that structure and knowledge is in place. I think Southgate could go now with a huge legacy behind him for what he did in the youth development and first team with England. Very few England managers get to go with their head held firmly high. I wouldn't sack him, but I wouldn't be upset if he decided to call it a day.

 

[Napper]

Keep . Has all the team pulling in right direction. Great record as manager.

Fine margins , another day we get through the France game.

It's light years ahead of some of the dross I've seen from us at tournaments

 

[Randy McNob]

We are all friends nowadays after that nasty man Hitler left us a few years ago

We are related as well, some of us being Saxons and all that.

I didn't mean it like that, however, the next manager has to be English if we decide to change

I for one, for the record, think Southgate has done a good job and should stay
Last time we went foreign it didn't work and neither 2 managers brought anything new to the game, if anything they made us worse.
The reason the FA went foreign in 2001 is because they felt English players couldn't adapt to international football and needed foreign influence to tranform the national side. That experiment didn't work and is no longer the case today.
The Erikson / Capello era was a time of national shame and embarrasment and I NEVER want to go back to that
There are many decent England coaches who could do a decent job
Top nations always choose one of their own to manage the national side, going foreign is seen as failure, we are not a failing nation

 

[Iggle Piggle]

We played well and lost are ignoring both the French goals. Pickford should save the 1st, Maguire and Stones are asleep for the 2nd. Pickford on balance hasn't had a bad tournament but Lloris - or even Pope - saves the first every day of the week and there is no way the Moroccan centre halfs let Giroud in like that on Wednesday night. We have a habit of giving away preventable goals with the same defence. Stones passed to a Dutch attacker in the Nations League semi final, We consistently got done in the air late against Croatia in the World cup semi and I'd argue - perhaps harshly - that Pickford is at fault for the Italian equaliser. A top quality keeper pushes it round the post which led to the goal (before you even get me started on the sitting back tactics against a back line with no pace which landed us under pressure in the 1st place)

Whilst we keep picking the same defence, we should expect the same results. The only way round that is getting rid of Southgate unless the abundance of attacking players scores more than 2 a game against top quality defences. The unanswered question about Southgate and the defence is whether it gets any better when it changes. I'd like to find out rather than watching the current lot come up short again in the next Euro's.