So, over 700 dead......

[ThePompousPaladin]

Interesting point to pick up on. Not ever so important in this discussion imho.

Yes, you're right.
Although when i see all the fundamentalist sects do their thing, and then i see the atheists lack of knowledge reacting to it. I can't help but point out 'he' and the ramifications of that is a moot point.

 

[BadFish]

Yes, you're right.
Although when i see all the fundamentalist sects do their thing, and then i see the atheists lack of knowledge reacting to it. I can't help but point out 'he' and the ramifications of that is a moot point.

Just a figure of speech

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Just a figure of speech

Yup, although too many use it with literal meaning.

 

[pastafarian]

Perhaps, although personally i prefer not to imbue God with human traits.

gods were invented by humans,hard not to permeate human thought into a gods thinking.

have you ever considered why all the other thousands of Gods over millennium were dropped in favour of another upgrade God?Its just basic upgrading to next gen.The latest gen God that people have bought into has only been around for a fraction of the time compared to older Gods

not sure which gen we are on at the moment but perhaps after the next upgrade the human population will just throw the current one in the bin and say "hmmm i dint need that app after all"

 

[BadFish]

Perhaps, although personally i prefer not to imbue God with human traits.

Why is this? There seems to be plenty of thiests who do. Doesn't the bible say we are made in his image?

Why do you choose not to not to give him human traits?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

take the crucifixion.......christians cant even agree if it happened,the bible gives separate information of jesus being hung in one and crucified in another........some christians havnt ever heard of him being hung from a tree,even though its in the bible.........how bonkers is that?

Perhaps because it is not really important ? I

 

[One Love]

gods were invented by humans,hard not to permeate human thought into a gods thinking.

have you ever considered why all the other thousands of Gods over millennium were dropped in favour of another upgrade God?Its just basic upgrading to next gen.The latest gen God that people have bought into has only been around for a fraction of the time compared to older Gods

not sure which gen we are on at the moment but perhaps after the next upgrade the human population will just throw the current one in the bin and say "hmmm i dint need that app after all"

Come on pasta, can you respond to my question?

Why do you care so much about something you then say doesn't exist?

I feel nothing towards your Flying Spaghetti Monster because I know it doesn't exist. What is it deep inside of you that has such strong feelings?

 

[beorhthelm]

Do all atheist believe the same thing?

the all disbelieve the same thing. its the definition of the term.

 

[pastafarian]

Come on pasta, can you respond to my question?

Why do you care so much about something you then say doesn't exist?

I feel nothing towards your Flying Spaghetti Monster because I know it doesn't exist. What is it deep inside of you that has such strong feelings?

apologies,I havent seen you ask a question previously

why do I care? because at the extremes religion stifles education and free thinking.

I have no problem with Mrs Watson going to the community hall this morning after church and raffling her carrot cake for a good cause,sitting around with like minded friends drinking tea.

But if someone is going to promote religion and say Gods exist I have every right to say no they don’t.

 

[Nibble]

apologies,I havent seen you ask a question previously

why do I care? because at the extremes religion stifles education and free thinking.

I have no problem with Mrs Watson going to the community hall this morning after church and raffling her carrot cake for a good cause,sitting around with like minded friends drinking tea.

But if someone is going to promote religion and say Gods exist I have every right to say no they don’t.

This. Religious people seem to be under the impression that atheists are engaged in some all out tirade against religion. Simply not the case.

 

[One Love]

But if someone is going to promote religion and say Gods exist I have every right to say no they don’t.

I agree completely but that wasn't my point.

My suggestion was that you seem to harbour strong feelings against God which to me felt illogical if you don't believe God to exist. Having a beef against organised religion seems logical, I empathise because I share that feeling.

This was the point I brought up in the earlier thread about Stephen Fry. His tirade against God I felt was personal and he was showing real deep hatred which to me then doesn't make sense when he denies the existence of the very thing he hates. Surely when you direct strong feeling against an object it's real to you.

 

[carlzeiss]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hajj-stamp...ia-faces-criticism-over-safety-record-1521334

 

[symyjym]

Yes i would prefer you write that, but only if you have an open mind...

If your mind is closed, and you won't look at the evidence of churches and religious types contradicting your point of view of them, carry on.

As a christian, my enemy is dogmatic view, and you have been displaying that in your posts. I do agree with you in large parts, just don't lump us all into the same basket eh?

Ok so far you have accused me of being ignorant and not having an open mind, and although I am not really offended by your assumptions I don't think it is it is healthy being patronising in a God debate. Part of the problem as you have proved, is that many believers (not all) will look down on people who don't believe. It's a kind of superiority complex and many see non believers often as childlike and some even feel it’s a duty to show them their way

I believe that I have not written anything personally detrimental to people who have faith. So I am not sure what you mean by lumping them all in the same basket because clearly many will do that themselves, just like I feel that you could be doing to yourself by the way you respond.

I could just as easily accuse you of wobbling on your actual belief.

To answer your questions. I'm an agnostic theist. 1) Sometimes i believe in god 100%, sometimes i don't. .

Surely you believe in God 99% at best?

I am content to understand that Jesus was a real person, a freethinking philosopher, who questioned what God is and what he isn't because he would have been brought up on the Old Testament whilst being out casted by the faith that followed it. There are claims, from some Jews at the time, who pointed to him being the son of a Roman soldier, Tiberius, possibly Tiberius Pantera. Which it is possible the reason why he was looked down apon and treated differently in the first place.

At the risk of repeating myself;

Some early Christian sects do not believe in the resurrection and some even put Mary on par with Jesus if not above, and they are most probably the ones that possesses the most truthful message. I believe that it is highly likely that Jesus has been misrepresented, but one will only understand that viewpoint if one has an open mind and seeks the real truth, not conform to what others believe is the gospel truth using blind faith.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Ok so far you have accused me of being ignorant and not having an open mind, and although I am not really offended by your assumptions I don't think it is it is healthy being patronising in a God debate. Part of the problem as you have proved, is that many believers (not all) will look down on people who don't believe. It's a kind of superiority complex and many see non believers often as childlike and some even feel it’s a duty to show them their way

I believe that I have not written anything personally detrimental to people who have faith. So I am not sure what you mean by lumping them all in the same basket because clearly many will do that themselves, just like I feel that you could be doing to yourself by the way you respond.

I could just as easily accuse you of wobbling on your actual belief.



Surely you believe in God 99% at best?

I am content to understand that Jesus was a real person, a freethinking philosopher, who questioned what God is and what he isn't because he would have been brought up on the Old Testament whilst being out casted by the faith that followed it. There are claims, from some Jews at the time, who pointed to him being the son of a Roman soldier, Tiberius, possibly Tiberius Pantera. Which it is possible the reason why he was looked down apon and treated differently in the first place.

At the risk of repeating myself;

Some early Christian sects do not believe in the resurrection and some even put Mary on par with Jesus if not above, and they are most probably the ones that possesses the most truthful message. I believe that it is highly likely that Jesus has been misrepresented, but one will only understand that viewpoint if one has an open mind and seeks the real truth, not conform to what others believe is the gospel truth using blind faith.

Good post. Again i broadly agree with you.

I'm glad you're not offended, that was not my intention. I believe open minded self aware people are not usually offended by the word ignorant, as we all are in some aspects. It's a truism.

I am wobbly on my belief, i try and question everything, i'm agnostic. Personally i find that the belief in God is in some ways irrelevant, it's the act of worship which is where the practical usefulness is for me. Of course everyone is different. But these tools are useful for many - and it's not just for people that are frightened of dying or are in crisis.

Sorry for not picking up on your last paragraph before, i'd agree with you - broadly, although it's been awhile since i've read the nag hammadi texts, apart from to say that some modern christian sects do have high regard for Mary, or at least open minded to it. Personally, i don't know, however it is backed up by a strong equality message in the gospels. This has to be viewed through a cultural lens though, and taken into account the heavy editing that went on in the 1st 4 centuries.

It is without doubt that Jesus has been misrepresented by many in many different ways. Still is largely. But hey, that's people for you... rigid thinking and lazy...

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Good post. Again i broadly agree with you.

I'm glad you're not offended, that was not my intention. I believe open minded self aware people are not usually offended by the word ignorant, as we all are in some aspects. It's a truism.

I am wobbly on my belief, i try and question everything, i'm agnostic. Personally i find that the belief in God is in some ways irrelevant, it's the act of worship which is where the practical usefulness is for me. Of course everyone is different. But these tools are useful for many - and it's not just for people that are frightened of dying or are in crisis.

Sorry for not picking up on your last paragraph before, i'd agree with you - broadly, although it's been awhile since i've read the nag hammadi texts, apart from to say that some modern christian sects do have high regard for Mary, or at least open minded to it. Personally, i don't know, however it is backed up by a strong equality message in the gospels. This has to be viewed through a cultural lens though, and taken into account the heavy editing that went on in the 1st 4 centuries.

It is without doubt that Jesus has been misrepresented by many in many different ways. Still is largely. But hey, that's people for you... rigid thinking and lazy...

Feck me you are boring.
How do you earn a living?

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

gods were invented by humans,hard not to permeate human thought into a gods thinking.

have you ever considered why all the other thousands of Gods over millennium were dropped in favour of another upgrade God?Its just basic upgrading to next gen.The latest gen God that people have bought into has only been around for a fraction of the time compared to older Gods

not sure which gen we are on at the moment but perhaps after the next upgrade the human population will just throw the current one in the bin and say "hmmm i dint need that app after all"

Hehe, absolutely.

I think the truth lies in the commonality. If every culture has it's spirituality, line them all up and see what they have in common, there's some truth there.

 

[pastafarian]

I agree completely but that wasn't my point.

My suggestion was that you seem to harbour strong feelings against God which to me felt illogical if you don't believe God to exist. Having a beef against organised religion seems logical, I empathise because I share that feeling.

This was the point I brought up in the earlier thread about Stephen Fry. His tirade against God I felt was personal and he was showing real deep hatred which to me then doesn't make sense when he denies the existence of the very thing he hates. Surely when you direct strong feeling against an object it's real to you.

The strong feelings are only directed at people who believe Gods exist and is only a personal view of what I think their God represents. Its not directed towards God him/her self per se. I don’t think Fry was addressing God himself, I think he was asking a broader question of "how can you support what god stands for"
If I got down on my knees and opened a conversation with God and started saying " I think you are a bit of an idiot and you probably don’t exist anyway" then I would agree with you,…..that would be illogical

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Feck me you are boring.
How do you earn a living?

Sorry you're not getting your entertainment on the over 700 dead thread, maybe look elsewhere?

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Sorry you're not getting your entertainment on the over 700 dead thread, maybe look elsewhere?

What do think about the footie?
Is God on our side

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Why is this? There seems to be plenty of thiests who do. Doesn't the bible say we are made in his image?

Why do you choose not to not to give him human traits?

Quite a complex answer to this one, but here's a quick answer.

It's a metaphor, it's part of a meditation/prayer technique. It seems a bit buddhist to me, being able to reach out, that were all of the same 'likeness' (which is probably a better word than image). As usual it's put in the most fundamental way, so all can get something out of it.

Here's a quote for the bible that would contradict the idea of a bloke with a white beard on a fluffy cloud.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways... For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Again more metaphor here.