[Travel] Shoreham Traffic

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

Same deal with a lot of places. Property and rent becomes so expensive folk move on. When I lived in London people started moving from Camden to Hoxton to Dalston to Hackney….they’re even living in Bethnal Green now. Brighton, then Shoreham, then Worthing etc.

...and Berlin

 

[The Clamp]

It already does. Population is only half of it . . . . Industry has moved and people feel compelled to travel stupid discatnces to work.

for example . . . . Where all the blocks of flats are on the river bank used to be industry . . . So planning should have said 1/2 residential and half industry/infrastructure. But that's not as profitable.

One thing is for sure. ADC, WSCC and our beloved MP have lined pockets, as encouraged by government, at the whole towns expense.

I wouldn't move to Shoreham now, but having been here a while It's still better than most places.

Here he is a couple of years ago trying to convince us that the development in Shoreham is a brilliant thing and we should all embrace it. With his vision for “a harbour quarter” and that the poplar tree should be ripped out to allow space for bins.

The Poplar Front and Overdevelopment in Shoreham

The Poplar Front and Overdevelopment In Shoreham Many of you have contacted me regarding the planning application on the old Civic Centre site, I hope you will forgive this general reply which aims to encompass most of the issues that have been raised with me.

www.timloughton.com

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Perhaps unpopular, but not in the South East, unless brown field sites

This area is at saturation point.

There is no infrastructure to support further houses…..
Everything feels at breaking point.
And building on flood plains is just ridiculous.

Happy to be labelled a ‘nimby’ on this, because there is no apparent strategy to this, and listening to Starmer, I’d be staggered if he has one either.

There are estates planned (and several new ones built) down here. I have no problem with the housing (albeit most of it is massive houses on tiny plots) but there is no infrastructure. What used to be a 5 minute drive for me to get on to the M2 is now a 20 minute drive.

Even King Charles is now involved:

Vision & Masterplan

As Swale Borough Council started to give consideration to the future expansion of Faversham to meet local needs, the Duchy of Cornwall’s land at the south east edge of the town was identified as the…

sefaversham.co.uk

One plan for the north of the town (Ham farm, below) has been heavily opposed. The land is owned by an anonymous holding company on the Isle of Man. The main objection is that the only route from the proposed estate is on a narrow road past a school and through a one way system into the old town centre. Totally unfeasible.

Proposed Residential Development on land at Ham Road, Faversham - Faversham Town Council

I write to advise that Gladman Developments Ltd is consulting on a proposed development on theabove site. Following consultation with key stakeholders and

favershamtowncouncil.gov.uk

The general plan is to more than double the size of the town over the next 20 years, expanding across green fields to the South and East. I am in favour in principle, but the land plots are being or have been bought largely by avaricious developers who change their plans at the last minute and take advantage of planning rule weaknesses to make do so. 'Affordable' housing disappears from the plan at the last minute.. The Ham Farm proposal (not approved, in a red box below) gets resubmitted with tiny changes repeatedly and the (very organized) objectors have to mobilize and quickly respond or the plan will be nodded through.

The Swale and Neighbourhood Plans - The Faversham Society

The Faversham Society has always taken a keen interest in shaping the future of Faversham to maintain our living and built heritage so that there is continuity between the past, present and future of our town. The SHLAA Map showing all the sites put forward by developers can be found here The...

favershamsociety.org

https://favershamsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/SHLAA-Map-1.pdf

I recommend doing what we have done - make a WhatsApp group, enlist a sympathetic person on the council, and don't let up.

 

[The Clamp]

There are estates planned (and several new ones built) down here. I have no problem with the housing (albeit most of it is massive houses on tiny plots) but there is no infrastructure. What used to be a 5 minute drive for me to get on to the M2 is now a 20 minute drive.

Even King Charles is now involved:

Vision & Masterplan

As Swale Borough Council started to give consideration to the future expansion of Faversham to meet local needs, the Duchy of Cornwall’s land at the south east edge of the town was identified as the…

sefaversham.co.uk

One plan for the north of the town (Ham farm, below) has been heavily opposed. The land is owned by an anonymous holding company on the Isle of Man. The main objection is that the only route from the proposed estate is on a narrow road past a school and through a one way system into the old town centre. Totally unfeasible.

Proposed Residential Development on land at Ham Road, Faversham - Faversham Town Council

I write to advise that Gladman Developments Ltd is consulting on a proposed development on theabove site. Following consultation with key stakeholders and

favershamtowncouncil.gov.uk

The general plan is to more than double the size of the town over the next 20 years, expanding across green fields to the South and East. I am in favour in principle, but the land plots are being or have been bought largely by avaricious developers who change their plans at the last minute and take advantage of planning rule weaknesses to make do so. 'Affordable' housing disappears from the plan at the last minute.. The Ham Farm proposal (not approved, in a red box below) gets resubmitted with tiny changes repeatedly and the (very organized) objectors have to mobilize and quickly respond or the plan will be nodded through.

The Swale and Neighbourhood Plans - The Faversham Society

The Faversham Society has always taken a keen interest in shaping the future of Faversham to maintain our living and built heritage so that there is continuity between the past, present and future of our town. The SHLAA Map showing all the sites put forward by developers can be found here The...

favershamsociety.org

https://favershamsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/SHLAA-Map-1.pdf

I recommend doing what we have done - make a WhatsApp group, enlist a sympathetic person on the council, and don't let up.

I think Shoreham residents got taken by surprise. Which is daft as all that old industrial land was not going to sit derelict for long. And it was pretty obvious why the council suddenly decided to build flood defences.

They thought “no higher then the spire” would somehow protect the place.

 

[Stat Brother]

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I support the developments around Shoreham waterfront. As a nation we need more housing and old industrial sites like these are the low hanging fruit

However. If I was a resident of Shoreham, I would be writing to my local councillors and MP's to ask what is being done to mitigate the impacts on local facilities and infrastructure.

More widely, we need to "level up" in the country don't we? There are dozens of run down northern towns, with loads of derelict housing, where anyone with any prospects escape from (to the south east) at the first opportunity. We need a genuine effort to re-energise those areas, not just the tokenistic efforts Boris wanted his photo taken next to. There's enough space for everyone in this country, plus those coming in to the country.

 

[The Clamp]

I support the developments around Shoreham waterfront. As a nation we need more housing and old industrial sites like these are the low hanging fruit

However. If I was a resident of Shoreham, I would be writing to my local councillors and MP's to ask what is being done to mitigate the impacts on local facilities and infrastructure.

More widely, we need to "level up" in the country don't we? There are dozens of run down northern towns, with loads of derelict housing, where anyone with any prospects escape from (to the south east) at the first opportunity. We need a genuine effort to re-energise those areas, not just the tokenistic efforts Boris wanted his photo taken next to. There's enough space for everyone in this country, plus those coming in to the country.

Very sensible post.

I don’t share your enthusiasm for the waterfront developments but I share your acknowledgment of the need for housing.

 

[SteveU]

You assume wrong.

So how does stating that the net migration figure is equivalent to a city the size of Birmingham make him right wing and that he’s stating that Shoreham is being filled with migrants?

 

[Eric the meek]

I support the developments around Shoreham waterfront. As a nation we need more housing and old industrial sites like these are the low hanging fruit

However. If I was a resident of Shoreham, I would be writing to my local councillors and MP's to ask what is being done to mitigate the impacts on local facilities and infrastructure.

More widely, we need to "level up" in the country don't we? There are dozens of run down northern towns, with loads of derelict housing, where anyone with any prospects escape from (to the south east) at the first opportunity. We need a genuine effort to re-energise those areas, not just the tokenistic efforts Boris wanted his photo taken next to. There's enough space for everyone in this country, plus those coming in to the country.

I agree with the first part about the waterfront sites, and agree with the need to improve local infrastructure. The demand is clearly there, so build them we must.

Where I'm less in agreement, is your suggestion of building houses in dozens of run-down northern towns where many have moved to the south-east. I remember driving through Brierfield and Nelson, next door to Burnley. We went off the main road and went exploring down a few side roads. Whole terraces were empty. The reason they were empty and the reason for 'loads of derelict housing' is that no-one wants to live in them. There isn't the demand for them. You would be servicing a need that doesn't actually exist.

We need to build where the demand exists. Not where it doesn't.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Where should the new homes go?

Our population has increased by 9m since 1997, Shelter say we’re millions of homes short. Young folk, sofa surfers and those living in B&B’s deserve a home as much as any of us. Only those with the bank of mum and dad gifting huge deposits have a chance.

Labour say they’ll deal with this, so prepare for nimbyism.

Just the one word in reply…..INFRASTRUCTURE

 

[LamieRobertson]

I agree with all your post except the last bit. Afaik all the development is on sites that had previously been used, most had been used industrially/commercially, surely those are the very definition of 'brownfield sites?' For example the block of flats my son lives in was built on the site of an old B and Q (and before that I think it had been a Post Office depot).

His block, btw, is pretty much the epitome of 'ideal development' (if there is such a thing). Not only is it brownfield it also contains affordable housing. His place is shared ownership, there is no way he could have afforded Sussex prices otherwise. There are quite a few young families in there, and it's developed into a little community.

With regard to the traffic I grew up in Lancing in the 60s, 70s and 80s (I'm out on parole now), so I know Shoreham well. I look at the A259 with horror - how did it get that busy? For my son though it's the 'new normal', it is what it is and he puts up with it and allows for it. And yes he does use the bus, the train and he cycles so he's not a lazy selfish motorist all the time.

You are correct it was PO before B@Q…….and yes they were some ‘brownfield’ sites……some I wouldn’t categorise that way and could have continued to be used as industrial…instead we have new units being built close to the periphery of the town….developing some is a positive but negated without improvements in infrastructure (there have been at least three other major developments)…actual houses rather than just 1/2 bedroom apartments would have been novel.

 

[B-right-on]

I support the developments around Shoreham waterfront. As a nation we need more housing and old industrial sites like these are the low hanging fruit

However. If I was a resident of Shoreham, I would be writing to my local councillors and MP's to ask what is being done to mitigate the impacts on local facilities and infrastructure.

More widely, we need to "level up" in the country don't we? There are dozens of run down northern towns, with loads of derelict housing, where anyone with any prospects escape from (to the south east) at the first opportunity. We need a genuine effort to re-energise those areas, not just the tokenistic efforts Boris wanted his photo taken next to. There's enough space for everyone in this country, plus those coming in to the country.

Of course you do because it doesn't affect you.

Write to our MP? Lol. The development is all about 2 things, meeting Govt demands and MONEY. The council got millions from the developer in 'contributions' towards local amenities. There's about 1,000 flats going up if you include the old Frosts site of 200 flats. That's an extra £2,000,000 per year council tax for our brilliant local council.

Say there's an average of 0.5 kids per flat. That's an extra 500 kids into a school system that is already over subscribed. Shoreham Academy, Lancing Woodard and Steyning school were full last Sept so dozens of Shoreham kids now have to go to school in Worthing to a school marked by OFSTED as Inadequate. Imagine having to take YOUR kid there every day. They didn't even lay on a bus, there's no direct bus.

In theory, yes bung up an extra 1,000 flats over some brownfield site is clever. But on top of the thousands already built in Shoreham that's already broken the school system, yea right. And that's not included the Monks Farm development in Lancing or any of the other Lancing and Worthing developments.

And that's just the schools. We're the sewage plants built for double the capacity? Drs? Dentists? Roads? Water supply? Electric infrastructure?

Council doesn't give a shite about it because they get their extra millions of funding whilst on their £150k a year salary (plus expenses of course).

And my kids have left school so it doesn't directly affect me.

 

[Weststander]

Perhaps unpopular, but not in the South East, unless brown field sites

This area is at saturation point.

There is no infrastructure to support further houses…..
Everything feels at breaking point.
And building on flood plains is just ridiculous.

Happy to be labelled a ‘nimby’ on this, because there is no apparent strategy to this, and listening to Starmer, I’d be staggered if he has one either.

Would our kids want to settle in the Midlands and North?

 

[Weststander]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you up in arms about some fields getting developed over your way not that long ago?

Shoreham is becoming ridiculously over developed with the hundreds of new flats going up around the Adur river. Not including the thousands that have already been built in the last 10 years.

By over developed, I mean the roads can't take the traffic, there's not enough Drs and dentists, the schools already are over subscribed as it is without the new flats being occupied.

Plus the infrastructure of water, sewage etc... wasn't built to handle that many homes, so that's a predictable problem down the line which won't get addressed until it becomes a disaster. Again.

You may be thinking of Burgess Hill?

That wasn’t an eco point. It was just a weird situation of 100’s of homes being built on the near Ditchling Common/World’s End side. Whilst the obvious solution is by the improved link road on the west of BH.

My wild guess would be because the masterplan looks neat and tidy, balanced. Someone else suggested brown envelopes.

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm wondering what the consensus of opinion might have been, had the council put the infrastructure in place before the flats were built?

a) a round of applause for their forward planning, or
b) 'what a total waste of money'.

 

[The Clamp]

I remember that first block that went up opposite the gym.

Developers were heralding that a dentist would be built underneath. And so it was. A private dental clinic.

 

[Brovion]

You are correct it was PO before B@Q…….and yes they were some ‘brownfield’ sites……some I wouldn’t categorise that way and could have continued to be used as industrial…instead we have new units being built close to the periphery of the town….developing some is a positive but negated without improvements in infrastructure (there have been at least three other major developments)…actual houses rather than just 1/2 bedroom apartments would have been novel.

As per Hamilton's original post I don't disagree. On one level it is amazing how such a posh and genteel place such as Shoreham can have so many brownfield sites! Some, like the wasteland round the back of the Ropetackle, (where the old King's Head pub used to be) were rundown and derelict for decades (unless you count Scruples nightclub!) and were 'proper' brownfield sites. However the place next to my son's block used to be a car dealership, it was a perfectly good industrial unit and like you say could have continued in industrial use, but it was torn down and now yet more flats are going up.

 

[Brovion]

I remember that first block that went up opposite the gym.

Developers were heralding that a dentist would be built underneath. And so it was. A private dental clinic.

Ha! Originally the residents were told it was going to be a gym. They thought it was strange as there was already a gym over the road. Then they were told it was going to be a dentist, which is what happened. The dentist originally said that they were happy to allow residents (and their visitors) to continue parking there outside of practice hours (which were only 9 to 5 weekdays). Now they've gone back on that and don't allow any parking at any time except for practice visitors, so there is a big wasted resource. .

 

[Binney on acid]

The developer submits a planning application for 11 storeys. The people win a great victory, and a compromise is reached. The new gulagesque lego and blu tac development blights the landscape, but is limited to a mere 8 storeys. Everyone's a winner !

But are they ? The eco warriors might have saved the poplar tree, but the infrastructure cannot possibly support indiscriminate high density developments. The A259 becomes a glorified car park. let's not concern ourselves with the lack of local school places and doctors and dentists. The developers are committed to ensuring that everyone has a home, irrespective of the consequences. They're so magnanimous ! What would we do without them ?

There's a lack of car parking in Shoreham. Why don't they knock down St Mary De Haura Church ? Granted It dates back to the 12th century, but so what ! We are facing a housing crisis. They could at least turn it into a car park, because the gulagesque developments that abound have inadequate parking space. How else are they gonna cram 'em in ?

One consolation. We can now experience one of the benefits of Brexit. We no longer have to worry about the EU interfering re the quality of our water. We seized control of that, and are now free to immerse ourselves in sewage whilst we bathe in the sea.

The developer originally only wanted to build 8 storeys. That's why they submitted a planning application for 11. Meanwhile, the transition of Shoreham to Shorehattan gathers momentum.

It's times like this that I miss the Luftwaffe.

 

[LamieRobertson]

As per Hamilton's original post I don't disagree. On one level it is amazing how such a posh and genteel place such as Shoreham can have so many brownfield sites! Some, like the wasteland round the back of the Ropetackle, (where the old King's Head pub used to be) were rundown and derelict for decades (unless you count Scruples nightclub!) and were 'proper' brownfield sites. However the place next to my son's block used to be a car dealership, it was a perfectly good industrial unit and like you say could have continued in industrial use, but it was torn down and now yet more flats are going up.

Good points that I am entirely in agreement with..

Ps not posh here ..grew up in the council house area of East Shoreham