[Finance] Self Assessment Fine

[Badger]

HMRC tried to fine me a couple of years ago for not submitting a tax return. I had informed them I'd been out of the country for 5 years but apparently they didn't have this on their system. The only way I could sort it out was by calling them. I used Skype to try and call them on their main number but like you [MENTION=314]Arthur[/MENTION] I got a series of robots and put in a queue which eventually hung up on me. Then I found a number for international callers and got through pretty quickly. The guy sorted everything out for me and cancelled the fine. It's worth digging around to see if you can find another number to call.

It's also worth noting, HMRC like to send out penalty notices even if it's their own f*** up. I was a contractor before I left the UK and my accountant submitted my tax return. The last time it was submitted they sent me a penalty notice with a cancelled fine (a final warning) that I had failed to declare I was repaying my student loan. This was despite the box clearly being checked on the forms and when I checked the online system, plus the fact I'd actually paid the student loan money I owed to HMRC. I called them up and they said someone had unchecked the box but couldn't tell me who it was or clarify if it was actually them. They just blamed me and said I'm lucky I didn't have to pay a fine. I'm still pissed off about it

 

[zeemeeuw]

Sold a lot of stuff on ebay and not registered as a business seller?

 

[Arthur]

Sold a lot of stuff on ebay and not registered as a business seller?

I sold an iPhone for £190....not sure that makes me a business though.

 

[Arthur]

HMRC tried to fine me a couple of years ago for not submitting a tax return. I had informed them I'd been out of the country for 5 years but apparently they didn't have this on their system. The only way I could sort it out was by calling them. I used Skype to try and call them on their main number but like you [MENTION=314]Arthur[/MENTION] I got a series of robots and put in a queue which eventually hung up on me. Then I found a number for international callers and got through pretty quickly. The guy sorted everything out for me and cancelled the fine. It's worth digging around to see if you can find another number to call.

This is why this site is wonderful at times!

Googled calling HMRC from abroad, found the number, got through straight away.

Spoke to the very helpful woman and turns out for the tax year I did earn over £100k with the redundancy payment. So I've just got to swallow the £100 fine as it's 100% my balls up.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You are correct. HMRC can require anyone to complete a Tax Return whether they fall within any of the Self Assessment categories or not.

HMRC used to issue a number of random Tax Returns each year but no evidence they have done so in recent years.

Unfortunately, HMRC has cut back on both the telephone enquiry lines and their webchat advisors. I have been in the tax game for a very long time and HMRC's service has never been this bad and the senior management doesn't really seem to care.

You probably will win the appeal against the late filing penalty if you had no reason to file a Tax Return. But don't expect a response any time soon. They are taking at least 3 months to reply to routine correspondence because they are receiving a high volume of correspondence. Could it be that people are resorting to writing because it is nigh on impossible to contact HMRC by telephone or webchat without sitting in a very slow moving queue.

Another Brexit bonus? I’ve had endless emails about Brexit from HMRC…must be a nightmare to address all the changes and increased workload.

 

[SAC]

This is why this site is wonderful at times!

Googled calling HMRC from abroad, found the number, got through straight away.

Spoke to the very helpful woman and turns out for the tax year I did earn over £100k with the redundancy payment. So I've just got to swallow the £100 fine as it's 100% my balls up.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

If you receive child benefit, it's worth checking that you haven't been overpaid that too.

I got a one off bonus that took me over the allowed maximum (I can't remember what it was). They wrote to me about 3 years later and I ended up having to pay back the overpayments, interest and a fine. To make matters worse I wasn't allowed to speak to the child benefit team as it was in my wife's name.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I sold an iPhone for £190....not sure that makes me a business though.

Here we go.

“I only have one job”

Now it’s “well….I have sold a phone”

What will it be later?

“I didn’t realize my property portfolio counted”

Why not just come clean?

 

[Weststander]

If you receive child benefit, it's worth checking that you haven't been overpaid that too.

I got a one off bonus that took me over the allowed maximum (I can't remember what it was). They wrote to me about 3 years later and I ended up having to pay back the overpayments, interest and a fine. To make matters worse I wasn't allowed to speak to the child benefit team as it was in my wife's name.

They’re really pedantic about that.

I did the honest thing in completing the online form to notify them that one child was having a break from full time education.

A month later an HMRC letter arrived, simply saying that my request to reduce CB was rejected, with no explanation.

I guessed it was because the initial claim 20 years ago was in Mrs.W’s name.

 

[Audax]

Employed parents claiming child benefit have to do it too.

Only once income is over £50k, because that is when the amount of Child Benefit you get begins to taper down. I actually got caught out a few years back the opposite way: the tax office forgot to send me a notice telling me I'd need to do self-assessment. Avoided a fine, but still had to pay interest on what I owed in having been overpaid child benefit.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

You are correct. HMRC can require anyone to complete a Tax Return whether they fall within any of the Self Assessment categories or not.

HMRC used to issue a number of random Tax Returns each year but no evidence they have done so in recent years.

Unfortunately, HMRC has cut back on both the telephone enquiry lines and their webchat advisors. I have been in the tax game for a very long time and HMRC's service has never been this bad and the senior management doesn't really seem to care.

You probably will win the appeal against the late filing penalty if you had no reason to file a Tax Return. But don't expect a response any time soon. They are taking at least 3 months to reply to routine correspondence because they are receiving a high volume of correspondence. Could it be that people are resorting to writing because it is nigh on impossible to contact HMRC by telephone or webchat without sitting in a very slow moving queue.

A few years ago they had a dual record for me (x1 employed and x1 self employed)and due to an address change during a period of only being employed for 3 plus years suddenly received a tax bill for £6k due the week before Xmas. Took a few phone calls (best time to call is 8am) and the matter was resolved after I confirmed I wasn’t self employed for over 3 years. I asked how the figure was calculated and they said it was a projected dividend.

I also asked for an apology considering their mistake and being so close to Xmas and was advised it was not HMRC Policy to Apologise!

 

[NooBHA]

This is why this site is wonderful at times!

Googled calling HMRC from abroad, found the number, got through straight away.

Spoke to the very helpful woman and turns out for the tax year I did earn over £100k with the redundancy payment. So I've just got to swallow the £100 fine as it's 100% my balls up.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

Appeal the Penalty in writing. You don't have strong grounds but loads of appeals are getting accepted due to the financial climate.

State that your grounds for appeal are based the fact that you used their own on line test and that you concluded that their request for a Return was erroneous. They can't start asking for Unsolicited Returns without grounds and an Employment Termination Payment in a prior year isn't grounds to commence a Statutory Obligation to complete SA Returns

 

[schmunk]

Appeal the Penalty in writing. You don't have strong grounds but loads of appeals are getting accepted due to the financial climate.

State that your grounds for appeal are based the fact that you used their own on line test and that you concluded that their request for a Return was erroneous. They can't start asking for Unsolicited Returns without grounds and an Employment Termination Payment in a prior year isn't grounds to commence a Statutory Obligation to complete SA Returns

He doesn't have any grounds to appeal. He earned over £100k in the tax year so does need to file.

 

[NooBHA]

He doesn't have any grounds to appeal. He earned over £100k in the tax year so does need to file.

I said as much in my post but loads of appeals get through and accepted at the moment you just have to chance your arm

 

[sydney]

Could it be that people are resorting to writing because it is nigh on impossible to contact HMRC by telephone or webchat without sitting in a very slow moving queue.

i think this is highly possible. I begrudgingly pay every cent of tax liable , not one cent more , a late fee i would not enter into , especially when govt. agencies are so hard to deal with/contact.

 

[dsr-burnley]

I sold an iPhone for £190....not sure that makes me a business though.

One of their more sensible rules (possibly the only sensible one they have brought in, in the last 50 years!) is that if you have a small business the first £1,000 income is effectively tax-free because you can declare £1,000 of expenses withot paperwork and without question. This was specifically for cases like small ebay sellers who sell less than £1k of stuff in the year - it removes any question about whether they are trading or not.

If your ebay sales go over £1k per year they will tend to assume you are trading unless you have evidence to the contrary.

 

[Arthur]

I said as much in my post but loads of appeals get through and accepted at the moment you just have to chance your arm

It was my mistake so I've taken it on the chin and paid it.

Thanks though.

 

[Arthur]

One of their more sensible rules (possibly the only sensible one they have brought in, in the last 50 years!) is that if you have a small business the first £1,000 income is effectively tax-free because you can declare £1,000 of expenses withot paperwork and without question. This was specifically for cases like small ebay sellers who sell less than £1k of stuff in the year - it removes any question about whether they are trading or not.

If your ebay sales go over £1k per year they will tend to assume you are trading unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Would they do that even if you sold one big ticket item like a car for example for more than £1k?

 

[dsr-burnley]

Would they do that even if you sold one big ticket item like a car for example for more than £1k?

No. If you sell one car it would be assumed to be the normal sale of a private car. And even if you make a profit, it's not taxable because it's not trading income (you're not a car trader) and it's not subject to Capital Gains Tax (tangible moveable property with expected life under 50 years). Buy a car cheap, sell it expensive, the profit is all yours.

It's when you start doing it regularly that they get you for income tax as a motor trader.

If your one big ticket item is more like a painting, then there's still no Income Tax, but there might be Capital Gains Tax if it's big enough.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Got to laugh havnt you?

OP starts the thread with it all being a mistake, only has one job etc etc. Turns out he has myriad income streams, earns over a 100K a year, a side-hussle in mobile phones and is now alluding to trading in cars. Everyone says they’re innocent until they get caught

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Got to laugh havnt you?

OP starts the thread with it all being a mistake, only has one job etc etc. Turns out he has myriad income streams, earns over a 100K a year, a side-hussle in mobile phones and is now alluding to trading in cars. Everyone says they’re innocent until they get caught

Feck me, good job you're not a magistrate !!