[Travel] RMT v Shapps.

[BenGarfield]

So what about unmanned stations that cater for 191,000 passengers, with or without dogs? Or as pointed out by another poster, 45% of stations are unmanned (obviously the stations on the Faversham line are among the 10% that are fully manned).
As stated before, regardless of politics, squaring the circle between the costs of running a railway (a lot) and the revenue available is a Herculean task. Beeching MkII anyone?*




*Bloody hope not!

The UK goverment has infinite revenue so in theory the railway and any public service it runs is not contrained by revenue but by the available real resources. The argument should be about the coherence of the governments neo-liberal agenda.

 

[drew]

So what about unmanned stations that cater for 191,000 passengers, with or without dogs? Or as pointed out by another poster, 45% of stations are unmanned (obviously the stations on the Faversham line are among the 10% that are fully manned).
As stated before, regardless of politics, squaring the circle between the costs of running a railway (a lot) and the revenue available is a Herculean task. Beeching MkII anyone?*




*Bloody hope not!

Well if people vote for a government that are ostensibly about looking after their own needs then public services will suffer. It is about politics, always has been and always will.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yet thousands of commuters are now working from home, maybe only travelling to work one or two days a week. Massive loss of income to the reail industry - the economics just don't work with empty or half empty trains. Just not sustainable - some services will inevitably have to be cut or reduced.
The Unions, quite reasonably from their members' point of view, want higher wages and no job cuts. It's a very difficult - probably impossible - job to square this circle.

Perhaps it would have been quicker had I replied to say that this is incorrect and irrelevant, and not tried to be more gentle by mentioning the Faversham line

 

[Machiavelli]

Shapps has written to the RMT demanding they put the latest offer to their members.

Shapps obviously doesn't want the offer put to its members.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Of course stations will be unmanned if they cater only for one man and a dog. So what?

Portslade is a busy station - indeed a key commuter one for London - and it is regularly unmanned even on weekdays.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Portslade is a busy station - indeed a key commuter one for London - and it is regularly unmanned even on weekdays.

It’s staffed on a “part time” basis according to the owners website. Not sure exactly what times this means though.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The station where I live hasn't been manned (or womanned) for decades.

But its not in the affluent soft south east.

 

[A1X]

Shapps has written to the RMT demanding they put the latest offer to their members.

Shapps obviously doesn't want the offer put to its members.

Shapps once again demonstrating this Government’s understanding of how negotiation works.

“Do as we say.”

“No.”

“What do you mean no? We’re the British Government. We demand you do as we say.”

“No.”

“Well then get ready for a strongly worded Daily Mail editorial tomorrow!”

 

[DudsFarm]

Time to end govt subsidies of the railway and let the user pay, then ask RMT if they want to take ownership

 

[A1X]

Time to end govt subsidies of the railway and let the user pay, then ask RMT if they want to take ownership

So what you’re saying is the Government should be trying to massively increase car use at a time when fuel prices are through the roof and there’s a climate emergency?

 

[rogersix]

If anyone can sort the lazy strikers out Shapps can. He needs to get much tougher though. Still proud to have voted Conservative.

good input!

 

[Machiavelli]

Time to end govt subsidies of the railway and let the user pay, then ask RMT if they want to take ownership

Will you say the same if junior doctors and nurses take strike action?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Portslade is a busy station - indeed a key commuter one for London - and it is regularly unmanned even on weekdays.

No change there, then. I lived in 'slade 63 to 79. Can't recall ever seeing a member of staff

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The station where I live hasn't been manned (or womanned) for decades.

But its not in the affluent soft south east.

Precisely.

But the pro HMG contingent on here argue this means that more unmanned stations (job losses) is a fair return for RMT pay rise. As you and others have pointed out many stations have been unmanned for decades. Those that are manned presumably have other issues to manage.

I have taken a hot bath for 64 years without use of a life jacket. That doesn't mean that I should now agree to white water down the Shotover river (NZ) without one.

It isn't you that's being a dick I hasten to add. But some people are.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

So pleased to see you back from your self-imposed exile MB, I was getting worried you'd gone the same way as so many others

Crodo has been working hard, but it's not quite the same

Who said I was on a self-imposed exile?

The same way as others? Like who?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The problem with unmanned stations is no help available for disabled people, who have to book in advance as there are few second people on board the train, and ticket machines breaking down.

 

[Springal]

The problem with unmanned stations is no help available for disabled people, who have to book in advance as there are few second people on board the train, and ticket machines breaking down.

A lot of regional stations in France & Germany are unmanned, how does it work there ?

 

[GT49er]

A lot of regional stations in France & Germany are unmanned, how does it work there ?

In France and Germany railways are run by the state - no privatisation, no creaming off revenue for TOC shareholders. Also a firm government belief in their railways (probably why they didn't flog them off to all and sundry in the first place).

 

[Weststander]

In France and Germany railways are run by the state - no privatisation, no creaming off revenue for TOC shareholders. Also a firm government belief in their railways (probably why they didn't flog them off to all and sundry in the first place).

Here’s a typical pre pandemic/lockdowns UK railways year.



Three key figures not itemised here are:
- Network Rail’s annual staff costs are £2.7b, making an industry total of £6b.
- Total industry dividends paid out annually are £0.26b.
- Government spending on rail infrastructure is £5b per annum on top of the £4.3b stated.

Dealing with two hot topics/myths:
- Cancelling dividends with a nationalisation would give a 4.3% pay rise to staff; or
- Lower fares by a rubbish 2.5%.

It’s a faux privatisation. The government pumps in £9.3b per year, funds all projects and funds all crises eg operators pulling out/ going bust and lockdowns.

Rail fares per mile are astonishingly expensive compared to some European nations, and its not explained by dividends.

I’m not against a re-nationalisation, but it wouldn’t solve many underlying issues. Let’s not forget that everyone used to whinge about British Rail, I worked with folk who’d been commuters in that era …. boy they hated ASLEF and the NUR.

 

[GT49er]

Here’s a typical pre pandemic/lockdowns UK railways year.

View attachment 151032

Three key figures not itemised here are:
- Network Rail’s annual staff costs are £2.7b, making an industry total of £6b.
- Total industry dividends paid out annually are £0.26b.
- Government spending on rail infrastructure is £5b per annum on top of the £4.3b stated.

Dealing with two hot topics/myths:
- Cancelling dividends with a nationalisation would give a 4.3% pay rise to staff; or
- Lower fares by a rubbish 2.5%.

It’s a faux privatisation. The government pumps in £9.3b per year, funds all projects and funds all crises eg operators pulling out/ going bust and lockdowns.

Rail fares per mile are astonishingly expensive compared to some European nations, and its not explained by dividends.

I’m not against a re-nationalisation, but it wouldn’t solve many underlying issues. Let’s not forget that everyone used to whinge about British Rail, I worked with folk who’d been commuters in that era …. boy they hated ASLEF and the NUR.

Nonetheless, France and Germany do it much better without all the farting around with Network Rail and the TOCs. Unlike Germany and France, since the war we've mostly had governments - from Transport Minister Ernest Marples, whose firm - sorry, his wife's firm (he gave all his shares to her when he was given in charge of transport policy) - made zillions out of building motorways, through to Thatcher - who hated railways (or ar least the fact that they still had active unions, which was her mission to destroy).