[Travel] RMT v Shapps.

[Weststander]

Nonetheless, France and Germany do it much better without all the farting around with Network Rail and the TOCs. Unlike Germany and France, since the war we've mostly had governments - from Transport Minister Ernest Marples, whose firm - sorry, his wife's firm (he gave all his shares to her when he was given in charge of transport policy) - made zillions out of building motorways, through to Thatcher - who hated railways (or ar least the fact that they still had active unions, which was her mission to destroy).

You want to make it strictly party political, Harold Wilson oversaw 90% of the Beeching cuts, backtracking on a 1964 election pledge.

Two reasons - the UK saw shiny new motorways as the future and the country was bust.

I’ve spoke to people in the railway industry. They explain that our 180 year old railway routes are a mishmash, boxed in by millions of homes and businesses in non sensical non straight lines. Germany had a fresh start after being bombed to dust and the Marshall Plan bankrolled it all. France famously just get on with it, if they want a brand new line they just do it in quick time and they disregard environmental/local objectors.

 

[Baldseagull]

If there is no guard on board any train, and stations are unmanned, who is going to buy a bloody ticket? Reducing the chances of someone inspecting your ticket is going to increase fare evasion, which I suspect is already significant.

 

[GT49er]

You want to make it strictly party political, Harold Wilson oversaw 90% of the Beeching cuts, backtracking on a 1964 election pledge.

Two reasons - the UK saw shiny new motorways as the future and the country was bust.

I’ve spoke to people in the railway industry. They explain that our 180 year old railway routes are a mishmash, boxed in by millions of homes and businesses in non sensical non straight lines. Germany had a fresh start after being bombed to dust and the Marshall Plan bankrolled it all. France famously just get on with it, if they want a brand new line they just do it in quick time and they disregard environmental/local objectors.

Yes.....the years FROM Marples TO Thatcher - includes Wilson, Heath and Callaghan. Obvs.

Unfortunately, the Beeching report was done and dusted before Wilson's tenure - but yes, he didn't do enough to quash it.

 

[Frankworthington]

Yes.....the years FROM Marples TO Thatcher - includes Wilson, Heath and Callaghan. Obvs.

Unfortunately, the Beeching report was done and dusted before Wilson's tenure - but yes, he didn't do enough to quash it.

The Beeching report was NOT done and dusted. The closures, in each case, still needed the approval or the Minister of Transport, who from 1964 was Labour.

Wilson and his cabinet clearly backed down on an election pledge. The right decision? Who knows.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

In France and Germany railways are run by the state - no privatisation, no creaming off revenue for TOC shareholders. Also a firm government belief in their railways (probably why they didn't flog them off to all and sundry in the first place).

I believe in France the Railways are 49% privately owned, the state holding 51% and, therefore crucially, control.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A lot of regional stations in France & Germany are unmanned, how does it work there ?

I’ve no idea. [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] ?

 

[mikeyjh]

The Beeching report was NOT done and dusted. The closures, in each case, still needed the approval or the Minister of Transport, who from 1964 was Labour.

Wilson and his cabinet clearly backed down on an election pledge. The right decision? Who knows.

With hindsight, clearly not! The thing that has always bugged me is that if you reach an (incorrect) economic decision that these railways are too expensive to run, then fine, restrict services, heck even stop all services on some lines but why not mothball the infrastructure? Why spend the next 30 years building on the tracks? It was an absolute disaster.

 

[A1X]

Some of the Beeching cuts were dumb (Uckfield to Lewes, the GCR main line, Woodhead, Horsham to Shoreham, Cuckoo line, Alton to Winchester) with a long term view. Others, such as the Hawkhurst branch, Hayling Island line and countless others, simply couldn’t be financially justified. Has the war not bought an abrupt end to the electrification schemes around the country, many would have been done in the 1940s (the plans were in place) and then it would have been a very different ball game, as many of the lines were shut down as it was too expensive to replace steam on them.

As alluded to above, after the war many European nations basically started again with their railway infrastructure, whereas we patched ours up and tried to keep it going as long as possible.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Talking of Shapps, the P&O sacked workers have called him spineless.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ex-po-workers-fury-firm-27792677

The replacement workers on just £3.94 an hour then had this happen.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/holidaymakers-stranded-after-coach-became-27719136

 

[The Clamp]

Info for upcoming rail strikes if it’s useful for folks;

Please note the following train strike information:

The Aslef strike will be all day on Thursday 15 September.

This will clash with the RMT strike, which has been organised for Thursday 15 September and Saturday 17 September.

The TSSA strike will begin at midday on Monday 26 September. It will last 24 hours, meaning it will end on midday Tuesday 27 September.

The Aslef action on 15 September will affect the following operators:
• Avanti West Coast
• Chiltern Railways
• CrossCountry
• Greater Anglia
• Great Western Railway
• Hull Trains
• LNER
• London Overground
• Northern Trains
• Southeastern
• TransPennine Express
• West Midlands Trains