Problem with Question on ATC...

[Southwick_Seagull]

It's far too sensible. The club won't listen.

Withdean Stewards - North Stand Chat

 

[Lord Bracknell]

As someone who sits in the front row of H-Block, I have to say that I sometimes find the activities of the stewards congregating immediately in front of me so distracting that it spoils my enjoyment of the game. I've made this point to them (calmly and sensibly), but the problem persists.

 

[Notters]

If they let people stand then the club could get in trouble? Is it that difficult to understand. (and yes, I like standing as much as the next person, the law is an ass and give stewards a bad name) it also gives police a bad name, a long with half of the laws in this country.

 

[Southwick_Seagull]

As someone who sits in the front row of H-Block, I have to say that I sometimes find the activities of the stewards congregating immediately in front of me so distracting that it spoils my enjoyment of the game. I've made this point to them (calmly and sensibly), but the problem persists.

The post that was made on ATC is by far gets the point across better then "f***ing stewards, get a proper job" etc. The club needs to listen.

 

[Southwick_Seagull]

If they let people stand then the club could get in trouble? Is it that difficult to understand. (and yes, I like standing as much as the next person, the law is an ass and give stewards a bad name) it also gives police a bad name, a long with half of the laws in this country.

I totally understand. My issue is the inconsistency. At away games most clubs couldn't care a jot about fans standing up. At Withdean if there are 300 Rochdale fans then standing is an issue, 1000 Leeds fans turn up and suddenly not so much.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Fan in moaning at stewards asking fans to sit in an ALL SEATER STADIUM shocker

They are the current rules for league football clubs, so instead of targeting the stewards who are merely enforcing the rules, why not target the rule makers instead? they are, after all, the only ones who can change the rules.

The FSF had a campaign about having safe standing at games The Football Supporters' Federation - Safe Standing campaign and encouraged fans to write to MP's in an effort to change things, have you joined or written?

 

[rool]

I experienced H block for the first time on Saturday and I found myself watching the three meat head stewards for a large part of the game frothing at the bit for any excuse to go charging on up into the stands.

The only one who seemed to have any good humour was the female one, The other three were constantly pointing looking for their next target.

I think it's gone beyond the standing issue and IMO these three do more to inflame the situation than help it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's patently obvious that the new stewards get to do their on-the-job training in the away end when they safely outnumber fans who wouldn't say boo to a goose. Shameful. They're nowhere to be seen when its, say, Millwall or Leeds.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The fans who moaned that their view was restricted at Swindon could have easily sat at the front which is the accepted norm at away games.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I dislike Leeds, like most people, but at Forest over the weekend they were up and out of their seats making BIG atmosphere. It added to the whole match experience, how can our club heve one 'trot out exuse' when an ( very arguably) bigger and more respected club ( in the media 's eyes) has a completely different policy?

 

[Southwick_Seagull]

The reply from insider now again lacking common sense. The reason why people complained they couldn't see was because the stewards insisted on everyone sitting in the seats they were assigned, in 90% of away games those who want to sit down go to the front, those who want to stand up go to the back. When this happens the game passes without incident and everyone goes home happy. The game on saturday also wasn't helped by the club not telling fans that they can pay on the gate, so when people meeting at the game wanted to sit/stand next to each other they had to stay in the seats they were given. Total farce.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The reply from insider now again lacking common sense. The reason why people complained they couldn't see was because the stewards insisted on everyone sitting in the seats they were assigned, in 90% of away games those who want to sit down go to the front, those who want to stand up go to the back. When this happens the game passes without incident and everyone goes home happy. The game on saturday also wasn't helped by the club not telling fans that they can pay on the gate, so when people meeting at the game wanted to sit/stand next to each other they had to stay in the seats they were given. Total farce.

I think the only time the stewards insist you are in the correct seat is when they have been advised to expect potential trouble and everyone can be identified on CCTV from the seat numbers.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Whilst the current FA rules state that people should sit, in reality it should be down to common sense. People are expected to be out of their seats when it is exciting, and most clubs respect that fact. The problem will come when some people insist on standing at all times in front of others, leading to the ripple effect backwards. Ultimately, the safety of the ground is in the hands of the Club Safety Officer, and if fans do not sit then they will be asked to do so, and then may be invited to leave - and then encouraged. Again, if you have an issue with the stewards then complain to the Chief Safety Officer and suggest that their training needs refreshing. They should hold BTEC or NVQ in Understanding Spectator Safety at Sporting Events, and if they are not performing as they should then the awarding body would be within their rights to come in an do an external assessment. Again, all stewards should be assessed by an A1/V1 assessor to ensure they are still meeting standards. It is in the interest of the club to maintain this as in the event of an incident they will be invited to comment about their stewards and their training and the procedures that are laid down to deal with problems. Apart from that, are these guys SIA (do they have lovely little badges) or are they stewards? The SIA do tend to think they are paramilitary! They should not be bunched up, they should be under the control of a supervisor who in turn is under the control of the Safety Officer. Identify them, report them in a structured manner to the club, and they should deal more effectively with it.

 

[Brovion]

The thing is to some extent commonsense DOES prevail. You can tell 300 Rochdale fans to sit down - so you do. You can't really tell 1000 Leeds fans to sit down - so you don't. Every time we have this debate I bring up the fact that I've stood quite happily for ninety minutes at places like Stamford Bridge, Upton Park, Craven Cottage, White Hart Lane and The Valley. The reason being is that I've been in with about 5000 Newcastle fans and common sense prevails - try getting them to sit down and you'd have a riot on your hands.

One of the problems is that you're supposed to be seated all the while the game is in progress (the last time we did this I think I dug out the relevant legal chapter and verse). And although the ball isn't in play the game is still deemed to be 'in progress' when a goal is scored - so all those of you who stand and cheer when Brighton score are breaking the law! I hope all those of you frothing at the mouth about "It's the law, what part of the law don't you understand?" will stay firmly seated in future.

Of course you won't (and why should you?) because a goal is 'exciting' and as Hampshire points out at times of excitement fans are expected to stand. So what constitutes 'excitement'? When does a passage of 'exciting' play become persistent standing? Because there is not and cannot be an exact definition there will always be this grey area when it is down to the interpretation of the individual steward(s) who will have to take many factors into account - like how many fans are standing up for a start.

 

[cuthbert]

I think the only time the stewards insist you are in the correct seat is when they have been advised to expect potential trouble and everyone can be identified on CCTV from the seat numbers.

At Swindon the stewards did insist that we sat in our allocated seats, but the system seemed to break down as kick off approached as there were not enough stewards to cope with the large number of fans coming in. I had a senior ticket and together with a number of other seniors I was in the back row, Row Y. I don't mind standing for the whole game but I had no choice, why does the BHA ticket office sell tickets for the back row to seniors?

 

[Richy_Seagull]

Sorry, but this isn't really the place for rants at the stewards, who do a good job. They have to enforce the regulations, and to call them bullies is pretty offensive. It would be better if fans assisted the stewards in doing the job they are trained to do, instead of criticising. If however, you have a genuine complaint about a specific incident, then you should contact the club's safety officer.

Incidentally, last week we had a number of complaints from Albion fans about other Albion fans constantly standing at Swindon, with some now saying they won't bother to attend away matches as all they had was a restricted view. Obviously, this is the responsibility of Swindon's stewards to deal with - but it's a shame fans are now choosing to stay at home as opposed to supporting the club.

The simple answer is to sit down.

Just to clear a few things up as can't reply on ATC.

First I did not mean to call any of the stewards bullies. I mentioned that when there were a large number of them together, pointing out individuals who were causing no aggro on Saturday, it just seems like they are out looking to find a problem when no-one is suffering.

An example was a gentleman who didn't want to sit down because there was so much dirt on his seat. He was second to back in a half empty J Block (with 1 person in the back row on the other side) For 10 minutes, while I was trying to watch the match a few seats away, there were two stewards forcing him to sit down.

This is, IMO, where common sense needs to come in.

I did not intend to "rant" about it. Reading back I understand it may look like one, so sorry. I just do not understand why so many other grounds in the country where we go allow sections to stand (and it makes a massive difference to the atmosphere, whatever the club says about how you can sing etc sitting down) we seem to have the strictest set of stewards in the country, in what is the hardest place to create an atmosphere anyway.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

At Swindon the stewards did insist that we sat in our allocated seats, but the system seemed to break down as kick off approached as there were not enough stewards to cope with the large number of fans coming in. I had a senior ticket and together with a number of other seniors I was in the back row, Row Y. I don't mind standing for the whole game but I had no choice, why does the BHA ticket office sell tickets for the back row to seniors?

This would imply an issue with the stewards not being trained to recognise the change in flow. Every ingress and egress point at a stadium should be equipped with a clicker, either manual or electronic. There is a "flow rate" which determines how fast an area is filling up. If the flow rate changes up, then the Safety Officer should be aware and he should be on the radio to his Supervisors and then the Stewards. The stewards should be redeployed to meet with this - and not just to order people around, but to guide them, which is the original idea of stewarding - safety and guidance!

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Just to clear a few things up as can't reply on ATC.

First I did not mean to call any of the stewards bullies. I mentioned that when there were a large number of them together, pointing out individuals who were causing no aggro on Saturday, it just seems like they are out looking to find a problem when no-one is suffering.

An example was a gentleman who didn't want to sit down because there was so much dirt on his seat. He was second to back in a half empty J Block (with 1 person in the back row on the other side) For 10 minutes, while I was trying to watch the match a few seats away, there were two stewards forcing him to sit down.

This is, IMO, where common sense needs to come in.

I did not intend to "rant" about it. Reading back I understand it may look like one, so sorry. I just do not understand why so many other grounds in the country where we go allow sections to stand (and it makes a massive difference to the atmosphere, whatever the club says about how you can sing etc sitting down) we seem to have the strictest set of stewards in the country, in what is the hardest place to create an atmosphere anyway.

Again - dirt on the seat is something that the stewards should pick up on during the pre-match preps. When they sweep the stadium (as in check it, not physically get a brush out) they should be looking for things like defective equipment, missing seats, or even dirty seats. If the stewards are going through the motions, then they are not doing their job.

Maybe the Stadium Security Officer is working to a tight set of guidelines laid down by the Council (who issue the Certificate), but without him coming on here and explaining, you are not going to know. I do think that there should be an explanation forthcoming, and not just the "conditions of entry to the ground are..." - there seems to be an issue with the stewards that are recruited and how they carry out their jobs. Perhaps the supervisors are not effective or are frightened to do their job (it happens when the stewards have been together for a long time and almost form a "gang").

 

[clippedgull]

At Swindon the stewards did insist that we sat in our allocated seats, but the system seemed to break down as kick off approached as there were not enough stewards to cope with the large number of fans coming in. I had a senior ticket and together with a number of other seniors I was in the back row, Row Y. I don't mind standing for the whole game but I had no choice, why does the BHA ticket office sell tickets for the back row to seniors?

This was actually brought up at the Supporters Club Forum last week. Why can't the ticket office sell seats nearer the front for the older/infirm supporters?

The answer given was that the ticket office had no way of knowing the seating plan for away clubs. err? Row A would surely be at the front Row B second up and so on? Or maybe that is too simplistic?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

This was actually brought up at the Supporters Club Forum last week. Why can't the ticket office sell seats nearer the front for the older/infirm supporters?

The answer given was that the ticket office had no way of knowing the seating plan for away clubs. err? Row A would surely be at the front Row B second up and so on? Or maybe that is too simplistic?

It's not really practical though. How many rows do you reserve for the old/infirm? The club could probably carry out a couple of surveys to see how many fit into this category. If you reserve 20 seats, and 21 buy tickets, what happens then? What if you say that Row A is for the old and infirm and only 5 tickets get sold - at what point do they go on general sale?

I would say that that dreaded Elf N Safety should kick in. If it is clear that someone needs to be closer to the front and there are spaces, then move them. If they are infirm enough to be classed as disabled, then go in the disabled section. I think that knowing the seating plan and being able to effectively sell tickets for it are two different things and would probably cause an administrative nightmare. Nothing to stop people asking for a seat in the front three though?