Poyet as possible manager

[Guinness Boy]

You could argue that you don't need a plan B when plan A is so effective, and the results show that it was effective. Nobody is slagging gus off here, it's just an observation of his strengths and weaknesses.

This

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

He likes money and to have it the player budget. If he does not have it, that will be his excuse for lack of success.

He like control, whether on the field with the ball, or in club management. Without it he is unhappy.

 

[Bold Seagull]

We went from League One relegation candidates to 13th, to Title winners, to 10th in the Championship to 4th.

Gus did incredibly well. His tactical changes within a game were often subtle, but he always stood by the mantra of keeping the ball. Out of 92 Championship league games, he lost just 23. That is pretty remarkable from where we came from in a very short period of time.

 

[MattBackHome]

Reckon he's perfect for Fulham and vice-versa. Would keep you mid-table playing solid, attractive football.

 

[symyjym]

It really isn't. I don't think it was an accident that we almost never lost when we went in front and never won when we went behind in the latter years. Oddly Gus DID have several plans in his first couple of seasons but as the stakes increased he played it more and more safely.

We didn't lose a game where we scored first, so he knows how to hang onto a lead. That doesn't get repeated as much as the negatives.

I agree with both sides of this debate, but also quite often when we scored first it would end up a draw and we always seemed to be hanging on by the skin of our teeth at the end of the game. However saying that, we cannot ague with his results on paper.

The only real test for Gus now is to get his Prem job with the quality players he feels he needs. I certainly hope he gets his job so he can be truly tested in the top flight.

I won't be wishing him good or bad luck and I will judge him on the future rather than the past.

 

[Acker79]

I agree with both sides of this debate, but also quite often when we scored first it would end up a draw and we always seemed to be hanging on by the skin of our teeth at the end of the game. However saying that, we cannot ague with his results on paper.

The only real test for Gus now is to get his Prem job with the quality players he feels he needs. I certainly hope he gets his job so he can be truly tested in the top flight.

I won't be wishing him good or bad luck and I will judge him on the future rather than the past.

And not forgetting the draws that came about when we got back into the game after going behind. We didn't always go behind because of a flakey goal. Sometimes we were being outplayed and had to switch things up to get back into the game.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think some people forget we finished last season 4th, with the fewest defeats in the league, 2nd highest goal difference, 19 wins...

Of course we were hanging on for a few games, or drawing when going in front, but jeez it's a tough league, I thought we were pretty damn good last year, with some big wins. I'm sure 11 of our 19 wins were by more than a single goal, so we weren't hanging on that much.

 

[symyjym]

I think some people forget we finished last season 4th, with the fewest defeats in the league, 2nd highest goal difference, 19 wins...

Of course we were hanging on for a few games, or drawing when going in front, but jeez it's a tough league, I thought we were pretty damn good last year, with some big wins. I'm sure 11 of our 19 wins were by more than a single goal, so we weren't hanging on that much.

I agree that we did well, however not scoring in a 180 minutes against Palace, with question marks over his preparation for the game still hang.

We could argue that getting rid of Glenn Murray was a massive mistake and that Gus was unable to bring out the best in CMS. Another manager may have made them the perfect partnership. Lambert, same age as Murray, has gone through the leagues with Southampton and I don't see Murray of too much of a different player to him.

I could even argue that Murray was as key to our promotion as what Poyet was, if not more, and yet he let him go on a whim.

There are many questions that need an answer, however the only way they will be is when he manages a season in the Prem. Only then will he be able to answer his critics.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I agree that we did well, however not scoring in a 180 minutes against Palace, with question marks over his preparation for the game still hang.

We could argue that getting rid of Glenn Murray was a massive mistake and that Gus was unable to bring out the best in CMS. Another manager may have made them the perfect partnership. Lambert, same age as Murray, has gone through the leagues with Southampton and I don't see Murray of too much of a different player to him.

I could even argue that Murray was as key to our promotion as what Poyet was, if not more, and yet he let him go on a whim.

There are many questions that need an answer, however the only way they will be is when he manages a season in the Prem. Only then will he be able to answer his critics.

.....and we won't mention Murray anymore......

at least not as much....

 

[Diego Napier]

i think Gus would really suit Fulham... except for proximity to Chelsea. to the questions, he's a very good coach, very good motivator (anyone disagree, i point you to El-Abd). tactical... a tad myopic. he plays nice football, but lacks pace and no plan B. and cant win from behind. other minus is he keeps talking how much he'd like to manage Chelsea/Spurs/Leeds/whoever the journo poses. he didnt lay an egg, but he did crap on us after the game saying we'd hit the ceiling.

Good post (Gus transformed our fortunes and during his tenure I was totally on his bus) although I think the "one example doesn't prove the rule" observation you levelled at Thunder Bolt in post #19 about coming from behind could also apply to Adam! Arguably, other players either failed (or so far failed) to reach their potential under Gus (e.g. Harley, CMS, Vicente, Dunk, Vincelot) or were his poorly judged acquisitions.

I think the discussions on NSC about Plan B miss the point. Some posters think that Plan B is hoof it forward to the target man. We did revert to that on a number of occasions during the last 10 minutes of games (I appreciate that some of the early leavers may be completely unaware of that tactic). Infamously when we'd come back from 2-0 down against dirty Leeds to be leading 3-2, Ankergren went for his Plan B by kicking the ball to the Leeds goalkeeper who promptly returned it to our penalty area for Leeds to make it 3-3 just before the final whistle! Some posters haven't got a clue what a plan B would be but just repeat the mantra as they feel that we needed to play in a different way to secure a win or avert defeat.

I think the reality of the situation is that most teams at our level don't have a plan B. We were so successful with Plan A in League 1 because opposing teams/managers generally lacked the nous to counteract our style of play. In the Championship, most teams play one way and as Gus did, revert to substitutions to shake things up on the field. In the Premier League the players obviously have greater technical skills and far more teams are comfortable in possession but again, most use combinations of substitutes and squeezing/expanding play rather than having the capability or desire to change style.

Gus believed totally in his style of play and would not change (he told us soon after he arrived that he'd leave if we didn't support him on the terraces) but we had an insufficient number of players of the right quality to carry off his way of playing during every game.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I agree that we did well, however not scoring in a 180 minutes against Palace, with question marks over his preparation for the game still hang.

We could argue that getting rid of Glenn Murray was a massive mistake and that Gus was unable to bring out the best in CMS. Another manager may have made them the perfect partnership. Lambert, same age as Murray, has gone through the leagues with Southampton and I don't see Murray of too much of a different player to him.

I could even argue that Murray was as key to our promotion as what Poyet was, if not more, and yet he let him go on a whim.

There are many questions that need an answer, however the only way they will be is when he manages a season in the Prem. Only then will he be able to answer his critics.

You can argue anything with the benefit of hindsight

 

[symyjym]

.....and we won't mention Murray anymore......

at least not as much....

 

[symyjym]

You can argue anything with the benefit of hindsight

Indeed

 

[Danny-Boy]

I won't be wishing him good or bad luck and I will judge him on the future rather than the past.[/QUOTE]

How can you judge anyone on what they haven't dome?

 

[symyjym]

I won't be wishing him good or bad luck and I will judge him on the future rather than the past.

How can you judge anyone on what they haven't dome?

You know what I meant, just like you meant to write done instead of dome, I still understood it