[Albion] Paul Barber on Albion match day ticket prices

[Bozza]

But it doesn't does it. Yes if say 3k bought at full price and 5k went unsold, I'd understand your point. But most likely tomorrow we are talking under 1000 Matchday tickets. With around 6k unsold.

I think your numbers are off. I think we're down to 19-20,000 season ticket holders now.

Last season the Football League reported we had 21,245 (Source)

In April, Paul Barber said we had around 90% renewals which would put us at 19,120. I would imagine there would be some late renewals and a few new purchasers but, after last season, it's hard to imagine there would be large numbers of those. Let's call it 19,500. It can't be far away from that either way.

For Birmingham there was a crowd of 27,242 with the Brummies bringing just shy of 2,000 I recall. That would make somewhere approaching 6,000 one-off sales, although there was an offer on.

The MK Dons attendance was 23,661. I can't recall how many they brought - 1,000 or so maybe. That would make 3,000 sales for a very uninspiring opponent with no ticket offers that I am aware of.

 

[atomised]

Mk dons there were no offers that I know of either, we're in South West corner. Last Saturday there were a lor more families around us. The game prior to mk dons there were a lot of students who'd paid around 15 pounds per ticket. Mk dons just a sea of empty seats in our block.
Conclusion being that the targeted offers seem to work. Some of those seemed keen to come back, hopefully they will

 

[El Presidente]

Bloody hell. With the behaviour of an alarming majority on here. (Which is obviously all your fault.) I'm not sure your comments really warrant an apology. But thanks all the same. Very big of you.

You make a number of interesting points, I don't necessarily disagree with if I'm honest haha and read them with interest. It's obviously a very complex equation with many variable factors to 'predict' and no guarantees. All things considered the club could be doing a hell of a lot worse.

And to be clear, I am eternally grateful as we all should be for blooms £20

My experience regarding my friends aside... Simply, I see empty seats and I worry about the loss of revenue that represents.

I'm sure the club want full attendances every match just as we do.

Getting the pricing right is a nightmare though. As has already been said, no one who wants to go tomorrow has to pay £42, there are cheaper options available.

If PB says that the highest price tickets are the ones that sell quickest then that doesn't seem to be an issue for some fans either.

The Cardiff promotion of STH's mates for a tenner was great, but subtract the transport cost the club pay (I would estimate at £4), along with VAT, and the club keeps £5 from the ticket sale. The same ticket sold for £32 generates £23 for the club. So you have to sell over 4.5 times the number of tickets for the club to receive the same net income, and the attendance information suggests that simply doesn't work.

Even at a tenner a pop against Cardiff, there were still 4,000 empty seats at the Amex, so there surely must be issues other than price that are affecting attendances.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I think your numbers are off. I think we're down to 19-20,000 season ticket holders now.

Last season the Football League reported we had 21,245 (Source)

In April, Paul Barber said we had around 90% renewals which would put us at 19,120. I would imagine there would be some late renewals and a few new purchasers but, after last season, it's hard to imagine there would be large numbers of those. Let's call it 19,500. It can't be far away from that either way.

For Birmingham there was a crowd of 27,242 with the Brummies bringing just shy of 2,000 I recall. That would make somewhere approaching 6,000 one-off sales, although there was an offer on.

The MK Dons attendance was 23,661. I can't recall how many they brought - 1,000 or so maybe. That would make 3,000 sales for a very uninspiring opponent with no ticket offers that I am aware of.

Maybe so, your post does suggest that many are still buying match day tickets. But have a look around tomorrow at the scores of empty seats and maybe think about it again. If the tickets were 10% less or if it was buy one and bring a kid free or whatever. Can you imagine if we were as bad as last year? In the bottom 3 and charging up to 42quid for a game against Charlton!!! I still think BHAFC have the prices wrong for this game, that's why there will be 2 unsold seats behind me again instead of notes in the clubs pockets. But good luck to those that stick up for the clubs pricing, Maybe Barber should raise everyone's ticket a fiver, a lot of fans seem to be in favour of it.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

...

 

[El Presidente]

Maybe so, your post does suggest that many are still buying match day tickets. But have a look around tomorrow at the scores of empty seats and maybe think about it again. If the tickets were 10% less or if it was buy one and bring a kid free or whatever. Can you imagine if we were as bad as last year? In the bottom 3 and charging up to 42quid for a game against Charlton!!! I still think BHAFC have the prices wrong for this game, that's why there will be 2 unsold seats behind me again instead of notes in the clubs pockets. But good luck to those that stick up for the clubs pricing, Maybe Barber should raise everyone's ticket a fiver, a lot of fans seem to be in favour of it.

With the exception of Derby there are very few sold out grounds in the Championship though.

They very publicly spent a lot of cash in the summer and that was reflected in a decent rise in ST holders.

Part of the problem is that match day income brings in less than people think. After subtracting VAT and the transport cost, an extra thousand ST sales at an average seat price of £22 a game brings in £345,000 a season, which will pay an average player's wages for about 8 months.

I agree with you that few people last season would pay £42 to watch bottom three Albion versus Charlton, but I'm not sure why people only focus on the most expensive prices when there are cheaper options available.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

The club response could be summarised as-

We know matchday tickets are too expensive, but we will keep them high to persuade our existing season ticket holders to remain as such.

To me, this screams of short term thinking not long term. Also it is a very narrow focus- just trying to hold on to existing season ticket holders.

There are negative consequences to this approach.

An empty seat makes the club no money- no ticket income and no matchday income.

If the club wants long term success they need to attract new (match attending) fans to the club, not just hold on to existing season ticket holders, who, unless they are immortal, won't be around forever. The easiest way to pull new fans in is through matchday tickets, not many people will go from never attending to buying a season ticket with nothing in between.

If the club wants the team to succeed, the more fans in the stadium, the better / louder the atmosphere. This could have an impact on the team over the 90+ minutes, and success can lead to increased income, which in the long term could make the club more self sufficient. So trying to fill as many seats as possible is part of taking a long term view. Being happy to see empty seats on the basis that you think you are keeping season ticket holders happy due to their significant discount is short term thinking.

Football clubs all face a dilemma- the conflict between being a sporting club and a business. Some clubs find the balance more easily that others. At the moment it feels like BHAFC do see the benefit of acting more like a club when dealing with their season ticket holders (the existing committed fans), but act very much like a business in their offer to casual fans and the potential committed fans of the future.

The idea that season ticket holders need a massive discount to keep buying could probably be tested a bit more than they do.

Overall, I still can't help thinking that a club with more affordable match day tickets would be a happier more successful club- a club looking to the future rather than tying itself in knots trying to hold on to their existing season ticket holders. If the club reduced ticket prices for away fans to £20- £25 we would be getting towards the idea of the 20sPlenty campaign the FSA run, and could probably get some reciprocal agreements in place with other clubs to the benefit of our away fans. For home fans I would go with a maximum of £20-£25 for the North and South stand, and £25-£30 for the east and west. Junior and student fans could be a big part of the clubs future so I would go for a 50% discount on all tickets for under 18s and students.

If this led to a fuller stadium for every game and bought more new fans into the stadium, who are the season ticket holders of the future, taking a long term views, these benefits arguably outweigh the short term impact of losing some of the existing season ticket holders and taking in a reduced income per matchday seat, and some of the latter impact would be mitigated by an increased number of matchday tickets being sold.

This is a long term view which would prioritise the success and long term future of the club over short term financial impacts.

The club's position is clear, they will stick to their model and will look at the empty seats every match and tell themselves that it's better to have those empty seats than risk losing existing season ticket holders.

Everyone makes their choice whether they want to pay the current prices and for many people, for whatever the reason, the answer is no.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

The FA / League should limit Premier tickets to £30 and the rest to £20 and all other club finances would have to follow. Pigs fed etc.

 

[Captain Sensible]

With the exception of Derby there are very few sold out grounds in the Championship though.

They very publicly spent a lot of cash in the summer and that was reflected in a decent rise in ST holders.

Part of the problem is that match day income brings in less than people think. After subtracting VAT and the transport cost, an extra thousand ST sales at an average seat price of £22 a game brings in £345,000 a season, which will pay an average player's wages for about 8 months.

I agree with you that few people last season would pay £42 to watch bottom three Albion versus Charlton, but I'm not sure why people only focus on the most expensive prices when there are cheaper options available.

I understand what you are saying but my initial post was because I wanted to bring a couple of family members to the game to sit in the 2 unsold seats behind me in the upper, but at £84 it was way way too steep!! I just don't understand the logic of having unused unsold seats.
If it looks like we are getting to the peen by renewal time, I might buy them both as under 10's and that would screw up barber and his profit margins for Matchday sales. Plus I get the use of 2 extra seats in the PL! Upgrade the tickets whenever I want. I'll be like an oligarch!

 

[atomised]

I understand what you are saying but my initial post was because I wanted to bring a couple of family members to the game to sit in the 2 unsold seats behind me in the upper, but at £84 it was way way too steep!! I just don't understand the logic of having unused unsold seats.
If it looks like we are getting to the peen by renewal time, I might buy them both as under 10's and that would screw up barber and his profit margins for Matchday sales. Plus I get the use of 2 extra seats in the PL! Upgrade the tickets whenever I want. I'll be like an oligarch!

Except you can only upgrade 6 times a season

 

[Bozza]

If it looks like we are getting to the peen by renewal time, I might buy them both as under 10's and that would screw up barber and his profit margins for Matchday sales. Plus I get the use of 2 extra seats in the PL! Upgrade the tickets whenever I want. I'll be like an oligarch!

No you won't - http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...ding-Season-Tickets-on-a-match-by-match-basis

This stuff is all related.

 

[Hastings gull]

The club response could be summarised as-

We know matchday tickets are too expensive, but we will keep them high to persuade our existing season ticket holders to remain as such.

To me, this screams of short term thinking not long term. Also it is a very narrow focus- just trying to hold on to existing season ticket holders.

There are negative consequences to this approach.

An empty seat makes the club no money- no ticket income and no matchday income.

If the club wants long term success they need to attract new (match attending) fans to the club, not just hold on to existing season ticket holders, who, unless they are immortal, won't be around forever. The easiest way to pull new fans in is through matchday tickets, not many people will go from never attending to buying a season ticket with nothing in between.

If the club wants the team to succeed, the more fans in the stadium, the better / louder the atmosphere. This could have an impact on the team over the 90+ minutes, and success can lead to increased income, which in the long term could make the club more self sufficient. So trying to fill as many seats as possible is part of taking a long term view. Being happy to see empty seats on the basis that you think you are keeping season ticket holders happy due to their significant discount is short term thinking.

Football clubs all face a dilemma- the conflict between being a sporting club and a business. Some clubs find the balance more easily that others. At the moment it feels like BHAFC do see the benefit of acting more like a club when dealing with their season ticket holders (the existing committed fans), but act very much like a business in their offer to casual fans and the potential committed fans of the future.

The idea that season ticket holders need a massive discount to keep buying could probably be tested a bit more than they do.

Overall, I still can't help thinking that a club with more affordable match day tickets would be a happier more successful club- a club looking to the future rather than tying itself in knots trying to hold on to their existing season ticket holders. If the club reduced ticket prices for away fans to £20- £25 we would be getting towards the idea of the 20sPlenty campaign the FSA run, and could probably get some reciprocal agreements in place with other clubs to the benefit of our away fans. For home fans I would go with a maximum of £20-£25 for the North and South stand, and £25-£30 for the east and west. Junior and student fans could be a big part of the clubs future so I would go for a 50% discount on all tickets for under 18s and students.

If this led to a fuller stadium for every game and bought more new fans into the stadium, who are the season ticket holders of the future, taking a long term views, these benefits arguably outweigh the short term impact of losing some of the existing season ticket holders and taking in a reduced income per matchday seat, and some of the latter impact would be mitigated by an increased number of matchday tickets being sold.

This is a long term view which would prioritise the success and long term future of the club over short term financial impacts.

The club's position is clear, they will stick to their model and will look at the empty seats every match and tell themselves that it's better to have those empty seats than risk losing existing season ticket holders.

Everyone makes their choice whether they want to pay the current prices and for many people, for whatever the reason, the answer is no.

Whilst we would agree that there is seemingly no logic to having empty seats which could be filled and paid for, your points represent a massive leap of faith, and if I may so, some rather convenient logic. How do you know that the club would only lose "some" season ticket holders? If the match-day price was as enticing as the figures you suggest, which let's face it, are appealing, then there would be little point in having a season ticket and it is quite likely that more than "some" will be lost. Others have pointed out that if thousands revert to match by match tickets, then it is likely that they will not go to see .e.g Rotherham on a bitterly cold sleety November night. Perhaps the club could introduce just a few more offers, which I personally would not mind as a compromise ( we are, afterall, on the same side!) but if I, as a ST holder, get a sniff of how to go to the games via a cheaper route, then I imagine I would take that.

I also suspect that this is a conversation we will not be having next year, if we go up - somehow I am sure that all of a sudden that pricey seat will be filled - I am sure that no one thinks that Man Utd at home will attract 23,500.

 

[Captain Sensible]

No you won't - http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...ding-Season-Tickets-on-a-match-by-match-basis

This stuff is all related.

Yeah, FFS BARBER OUT.
Or if it looks like we are Prem bound in March, do I have it in me to purchase them anyway just out of spite. Lol

 

[ChickenBaltiPie]

I'm sure the club want full attendances every match just as we do.

Getting the pricing right is a nightmare though. As has already been said, no one who wants to go tomorrow has to pay £42, there are cheaper options available.

If PB says that the highest price tickets are the ones that sell quickest then that doesn't seem to be an issue for some fans either.

The Cardiff promotion of STH's mates for a tenner was great, but subtract the transport cost the club pay (I would estimate at £4), along with VAT, and the club keeps £5 from the ticket sale. The same ticket sold for £32 generates £23 for the club. So you have to sell over 4.5 times the number of tickets for the club to receive the same net income, and the attendance information suggests that simply doesn't work.

Even at a tenner a pop against Cardiff, there were still 4,000 empty seats at the Amex, so there surely must be issues other than price that are affecting attendances.

Yet, we can and have 'sold out' games...we need to do it more often and grow the fan base, and that requires longer term planning.

Getting pricing right is a nightmare, I agree. It's not easy, it's very complex, and I don't believe anyone here has the answer.....but I don't stubbornly/blindly believe the clubs has is quite nailed on yet either and one or two of us don't have any valuable thoughts on it. There is always more can be done and improvements that can be made.

I'd of jumped at the chance to bring all my mates for £20 or £30 haha, let alone £10 haha and that's my point, unlike others I'm not complaining that the prices are that far off, or that my season ticket is expensive etc etc etc, I'm not having a general whinge about all pricing, but neither I nor they want to sit in the South West Corner for £10, and subsequently would gladly pay more (just not £40+ more for a better seat with me, in my stand.

£10 is an amazing price for some and does wonders for making the game accessible to all, on all budgets, but it would be a vast enhancement to make it accessible to 'all' at a range of better prices. £42 is too much. They're asking too much of those that they think can afford it. People that can afford it, are smart, they know when they're paying too much for something, and they're tight, haha. They sit in the more accurately priced seats or they don't go, and that seat which could've been sold for 'more' (just not £42 more) isn't sold at all.....and if they do pay the full £42 they do it once or twice a season l, not half a dozen or more times, and then buy a season ticket.

Now, had the offer included take a mate in lower for £20 and upper for, £30 bingo.

 

[amexer]

What a lot of waffle. I am in East Upper and many people we know for family and work reasons are only able to come to 6/7 games. However none do because they will not pay £42. They are also not willing to sit elsewhere when there friends are in East Stand. I know of no season ticket holders who would be upset if these were sold at 30/32. Of course ideal solution is 25/26000 season tickets but until that is achieved there is a large untapped market from people that cannot commit to season ticket.
Very hard to understand. Can only presume maybe there are only 17000 season ticket holders. If that's the case they are now already selling 3/4000 match day tickets and they don't want to upset them or reduce price to them.
Also cannot understand why if somebody has suggested match day tickets are too high it needed such a long winded answer

 

[ChickenBaltiPie]

What a lot of waffle. I am in East Upper and many people we know for family and work reasons are only able to come to 6/7 games. However none do because they will not pay £42. They are also not willing to sit elsewhere when there friends are in East Stand. I know of no season ticket holders who would be upset if these were sold at 30/32. Of course ideal solution is 25/26000 season tickets but until that is achieved there is a large untapped market from people that cannot commit to season ticket.
Very hard to understand. Can only presume maybe there are only 17000 season ticket holders. If that's the case they are now already selling 3/4000 match day tickets and they don't want to upset them or reduce price to them.
Also cannot understand why if somebody has suggested match day tickets are too high it needed such a long winded answer

Yep

 

[nwgull]

What a lot of waffle. I am in East Upper and many people we know for family and work reasons are only able to come to 6/7 games. However none do because they will not pay £42. They are also not willing to sit elsewhere when there friends are in East Stand. I know of no season ticket holders who would be upset if these were sold at 30/32.

Those STs are £625, aren't they? So about £27.20 a game. I have a half share in a Season Ticket, and, although 'upset' is not the right word, there's no way that we'd bother with a season ticket if the costs for picking and choosing games was only an additional 10%.

Can't please everyone, but I certainly prefer the way that the club looks after the 20K fans that commit to every game in August, as opposed to people that pick and choose and still want to sit in the best seats.

It's not as if there aren't offers to casual fans either: 4 games for £100, and/or 2 games a season where you can get in for £10.

 

[atomised]

Those STs are £625, aren't they? So about £27.20 a game. I have a half share in a Season Ticket, and, although 'upset' is not the right word, there's no way that we'd bother with a season ticket if the costs for picking and choosing games was only an additional 10%.

Can't please everyone, but I certainly prefer the way that the club looks after the 20K fans that commit to every game in August, as opposed to people that pick and choose and still want to sit in the best seats.

It's not as if there aren't offers to casual fans either: 4 games for £100, and/or 2 games a season where you can get in for £10.

Very true. Identical position really the current cost benefit of a season ticket is why we go for it. If the difference wasn't so great we wouldn't bother. If you know so many who'd come 6 or 7 times a season why can't they buy season tickets between them and across the season it's another seat filled

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

what was the attendance today
regards
DR

 

[jonny.rainbow]

what was the attendance today
regards
DR

Circa 25,000 (pretendance).