Panorama BBC1 - on now

[el punal]

This with bells on.

I don't think its good for the country though to have such pathetic opposition. TM's lot will be able to do whatever they like without anybody to challenge or hold them to account....a bit like southern railway

Not quite. I don't think the Tory Party conference will be cancelled.

 

[HH Brighton]

This with bells on.

I don't think its good for the country though to have such pathetic opposition. TM's lot will be able to do whatever they like without anybody to challenge or hold them to account....a bit like southern railway

I think you are missing the point. If the country are still going to vote a Tory government in at the last election and vote for Brexit then sometimes you have to accept that's the peoples will, despite thinking it ridiculous. So in opposition you stick to your beliefs and try and create something totally different, perhaps not to govern but to remain true to your beliefs and try and convince others that there's a better way than shouting ra ra ra ra across the dispatch box. The amount of people that place any relevance to PMQ's and who wins an argument shouting over each other just shows where we're at in this country. You've only got to look at the amount of comments on this thread saying Theresa May will win over the dispatch box. Who really cares about this punch and Judy show? The Tories only had to convince 1 in 4 people about their economic policy and hey presto, there are plenty of morons on this country that will take the bait, look at UKIP supporters and Brexit......!!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I think you are missing the point. If the country are still going to vote a Tory government in at the last election and vote for Brexit then sometimes you have to accept that's the peoples will, despite thinking it ridiculous. So in opposition you stick to your beliefs and try and create something totally different, perhaps not to govern but to remain true to your beliefs and try and convince others that there's a better way than shouting ra ra ra ra across the dispatch box. The amount of people that place any relevance to PMQ's and who wins an argument shouting over each other just shows where we're at in this country. You've only got to look at the amount of comments on this thread saying Theresa May will win over the dispatch box. Who really cares about this punch and Judy show? The Tories only had to convince 1 in 4 people about their economic policy and hey presto, there are plenty of morons on this country that will take the bait, look at UKIP supporters and Brexit......!!

But Labour can't just give up ! Government is about compromise and administrative skills as much as it is about ideology. This country needs a functioning opposition that speaks to voters not one that preaches to the converted. It also needs at least an occasional Labour Government to stand up for people left out under the Tories. I don't think it tenable in politics for everyone to simply stay true to their beliefs and never work with others of different views as there are many different and conflicting needs that need to be addressed. The JC model of opposition you outline is student politics.
Regarding the programme last night, what a complete waste of half an hour. It told us nothing we didn't already know and the best bit was watching the footie kickabout in the background while they interviewed someone or other.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I think you are missing the point. If the country are still going to vote a Tory government in at the last election and vote for Brexit then sometimes you have to accept that's the peoples will, despite thinking it ridiculous. So in opposition you stick to your beliefs and try and create something totally different, perhaps not to govern but to remain true to your beliefs and try and convince others that there's a better way than shouting ra ra ra ra across the dispatch box. The amount of people that place any relevance to PMQ's and who wins an argument shouting over each other just shows where we're at in this country. You've only got to look at the amount of comments on this thread saying Theresa May will win over the dispatch box. Who really cares about this punch and Judy show? The Tories only had to convince 1 in 4 people about their economic policy and hey presto, there are plenty of morons on this country that will take the bait, look at UKIP supporters and Brexit......!!

I think you're missing the point. May only has a small majority so with a coherent and united opposition she would find it more difficult to get policies through parliament and would also be more worried about her government's performance and being held to account (yes especially at PMQs but not exclusively). As it is, the opposition is a total mess and is spending much more time and effort fighting itself rather than the government. The Tories can't be properly scrutinised on policy when nobody knows what the official opposition's policies actually are. It's only the Lib Dems and the SNP who are currently in a position to challenge the government on what they do and this is a disaster for democracy whichever party you support (or don't support).

 

[Hastings gull]

I think you are missing the point. If the country are still going to vote a Tory government in at the last election and vote for Brexit then sometimes you have to accept that's the peoples will, despite thinking it ridiculous. So in opposition you stick to your beliefs and try and create something totally different, perhaps not to govern but to remain true to your beliefs and try and convince others that there's a better way than shouting ra ra ra ra across the dispatch box. The amount of people that place any relevance to PMQ's and who wins an argument shouting over each other just shows where we're at in this country. You've only got to look at the amount of comments on this thread saying Theresa May will win over the dispatch box. Who really cares about this punch and Judy show? The Tories only had to convince 1 in 4 people about their economic policy and hey presto, there are plenty of morons on this country that will take the bait, look at UKIP supporters and Brexit......!!

I am not exactly sure how many morons there are but I think the Tory vote ends to be about 10 to 13 million, which can vary. That is an awful lot of morons. Might it just be that millions might be right and that you are the moron?

 

[Chicken Run]

I think you are missing the point. If the country are still going to vote a Tory government in at the last election and vote for Brexit then sometimes you have to accept that's the peoples will, despite thinking it ridiculous. So in opposition you stick to your beliefs and try and create something totally different, perhaps not to govern but to remain true to your beliefs and try and convince others that there's a better way than shouting ra ra ra ra across the dispatch box. The amount of people that place any relevance to PMQ's and who wins an argument shouting over each other just shows where we're at in this country. You've only got to look at the amount of comments on this thread saying Theresa May will win over the dispatch box. Who really cares about this punch and Judy show? The Tories only had to convince 1 in 4 people about their economic policy and hey presto, there are plenty of morons on this country that will take the bait, look at UKIP supporters and Brexit......!![/QUOTE]

I am not exactly sure how many morons there are but I think the Tory vote ends to be about 10 to 13 million, which can vary. That is an awful lot of morons. Might it just be that millions might be right and that you are the moron?

Indeed!

 

[Igzilla]

Hmmm...I might give this a watch. I remember Mark Sandell from my teacher training course. He was always banging on about the NUT.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Hmmm...I might give this a watch. I remember Mark Sandell from my teacher training course. He was always banging on about the NUT.

I thought Dispatches was better - the undercover filming showed what Momentum are really like. You can get it on Channel Four OD.

 

[HH Brighton]

I am not exactly sure how many morons there are but I think the Tory vote ends to be about 10 to 13 million, which can vary. That is an awful lot of morons. Might it just be that millions might be right and that you are the moron?

11.3 million voted Tory at last election, 4 million voted UKIP and 15 million didn't even vote, tells you everything about the sort of government you get when people are so fed up with politics in this country. It could be I'm the moron but I choose to spend time with like minded people and not the other sort of people who vote for the kind of country we have now. I must admit I have sort of accepted defeat nowadays, a lot more people have become more selfish, bigoted and racist.

 

[heathgate]

"I don't think you should ban people because you don't like their ideas" says Mark Sandell who has called for the deselection of his local MP for not being a Corbynite.

As telling as any of the fantasy statements that Corbyn trots out...... if it hadn't have been for the University Fee debacle trashing their prospects, I reckon the Lib Dems would be comfortably in 2nd place now.

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[Neville's Breakfast]

As telling as any of the fantasy statements that Corbyn trots out...... if it hadn't have been for the University Fee debacle trashing their prospects, I reckon the Lib Dems would be comfortably in 2nd place now.

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I also enjoyed the irony of the fella saying that he couldnt understand why Peter Kyle would want to stand for Labour on a platform with which he disagreed whilst completely ignoring the fact that JC and others did exactly this for DECADES ! It is difficult to work out whether these true believers of the cult are unable to engage in reasonable conversation with people with whom they disagree or whether they are unable to process information that conflicts with their world view. Quite bizarre.

 

[fat old seagull]

I am not keen on party politics at all, and would embrace the day when the electorate were able to vote for the person most suitable to protect and develop their constituency....without the necessity of being a gang member.
That said, whilst seemingly forever stuck with the present status quo. It is disappointing that the probably honest, but totally misguided Jeremy Corbyn is prepared to destroy the only party that had any possibility of keeping the Conservative Party accountable. But generally, I can't think of more than a handful of current MPs (of any party) I'd be confident could run a market stall. Bloody childish bunch of tossers !

 

[Washie]

British Politics is now ****ed, none of these childish ********s should be in charge. You know that the political system is wrong when people are voting for the lesser of two evils, or even worse, they vote for a party, not even caring what the policies are, they will vote tory because they are tory and vice versa. I've heard alot of reasons why some people don't vote, but the fact that alot of people don't vote is because they dont like any of the party policies shows that there is something seriously wrong.

 

[Lush]

The big demise. Labour, a far more profound joke than even Peter Kay could invent.

Well good. Time for a new centre-left party that isn't bound by history/out-dated traditions.

 

[heathgate]

I also enjoyed the irony of the fella saying that he couldnt understand why Peter Kyle would want to stand for Labour on a platform with which he disagreed whilst completely ignoring the fact that JC and others did exactly this for DECADES ! It is difficult to work out whether these true believers of the cult are unable to engage in reasonable conversation with people with whom they disagree or whether they are unable to process information that conflicts with their world view. Quite bizarre.

They can't help themselves.. the hard left have always adopted a 'fascist' approach to command and control.... free speech when it doesn't align to their doctrine, is anathema to them.

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[heathgate]

Well good. Time for a new centre-left party that isn't bound by history/out-dated traditions.

We had 13 years of that with Blair and Brown... look where that got us.

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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think you're missing the point. May only has a small majority so with a coherent and united opposition she would find it more difficult to get policies through parliament and would also be more worried about her government's performance and being held to account (yes especially at PMQs but not exclusively). As it is, the opposition is a total mess and is spending much more time and effort fighting itself rather than the government. The Tories can't be properly scrutinised on policy when nobody knows what the official opposition's policies actually are. It's only the Lib Dems and the SNP who are currently in a position to challenge the government on what they do and this is a disaster for democracy whichever party you support (or don't support).

100% correct. Sadly . . . .

 

[ALBION28]

What did I learn from this program? Brighton has the largest Labour membership in the country, that suprised me. The BBC are not very good at understanding what is going on. They seem to think the Labour party is being taken over by a bunch of exterme Trotskyists or are they called entryists? I am a bit of an old dude but seems to me that a rebirth is occuring. The agenda is moving in the direction of a disenchanted younger generation ( and a few of us oldies) who are no longer buying the Thatcher/Blair wet dream of proifit and grab all you can whilst stuffing the rest. The Labour party is now the largest in the country by membership that is far from bad news. Corbyn has made it engaging. Will it challenge the Tories? I hope so. Certainly time for a change.