[News] Not looking good!

[MJsGhost]

We here in western and northern Europe can be as ecologically alert as we like,... unless there is a shift from the heavily populated and industrialised nations in Asia and the sub continent, our relatively small lifestyle adjustments have little or no effect on the global picture.

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Who do you think buys all the tat produced by these heavily industrialised nations?

 

[heathgate]

Who do you think buys all the tat produced by these heavily industrialised nations?

Not quite,.... in the past yes that was the case, however, the countries in those regions are now significant consumers in their own right... huge consumers and huge polluters, added to which they dont in a lot of cases, have the strict environmental management and accountability we have in place in western Europe in particular.

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[Eric the meek]

Who do you think buys all the tat produced by these heavily industrialised nations?

My family.

It was my birthday the other day, and my son bought me a box of stones, to freeze and put in whisky. What happened to ice?

They are just square bits of rock, about the size of a large sugar cube. They are 'designed' in Cornwall, but where are they made?
China. We are importing (and buying) small rocks from China to put in our whisky......

 

[CheeseRolls]

Just been perfectly well explained on Radio 4 by the actual scientists that understand it. And guess what? Firstly it's based on modelling and secondly the Guardian is mis-reporting the science in order to scare people.

The Gulf Stream is not about to collapse as they so dramatically state. The Gulf Stream is a wind pattern in the atmosphere that will remain. However, changes to AMOC may see it shift southwards fairly permanently. IF this happens then the UK will see a reduction in temperature and more "beast from the East" type events, countries south of us will get more warm rain. But the worrying kicker will be far more droughts in Africa similar to the 1980s.

Let's face it, none of the above is good but it is NOT the collapse of the Gulf Stream either. Nor can they say if it will happen or when. Once again non-scientific journalists mis-report science for political gain. On a personal note, I'm a died in the wool Guardianista but I've not read it since their early Covid reporting and feel far better for it.

I read the article and didn't think it was particularly sensationalist. You are right about the broader impact, but the Gulf Stream has a HUGE impact on weather in this country. IF it shifts we could be looking at Moscow winters and unbearable summer heat. It can feel like we are all being set a task like being asked to save a million quid from our loose change and the easiest thing to do is sneer and disengage. Small changes do add up and innovation in science and technology still has an enormous amount to contribute.

 

[cirC]

In the late 1990s the BBC had a series called Earth Story and in one of the episodesit discussed the issue of the gulf stream failing. Seems like it has happened before on many occasions.

The series was presented by Aubrey Manning ( https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/11/aubrey-manning-obituary ) and the story covered all aspects from biology through to geology and the relative sciences explained. Now you know the BBC never ever tries to misinform so I take this particular work as science based. To put it another way, 16year olds do not feature. The fact that we are ruining the planet is another story but the gulf stream is not part of that.

The episode which talks and explains the gulf stream shows a medium term cyclical period to cold and warm and the episode in question showed that in less than 100 years the ice sheets would partly melt and the fresh water
would block the gulf stream and a cooling period would follow. Part 1 of 6 is here so watch and follow the episodes.

It's a BBC series so no bullsh*t involved. Well not in this series at least.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFcKEcyWhGQ )

 

[Guinness Boy]

I read the article and didn't think it was particularly sensationalist. You are right about the broader impact, but the Gulf Stream has a HUGE impact on weather in this country. IF it shifts we could be looking at Moscow winters and unbearable summer heat. It can feel like we are all being set a task like being asked to save a million quid from our loose change and the easiest thing to do is sneer and disengage. Small changes do add up and innovation in science and technology still has an enormous amount to contribute.

That wasn't my point.

In the headline and opening paragraph they use the phrase "Gulf stream collapse". This is factually incorrect.

Then, even in the report, there is the paragraph

The complexity of the AMOC system and uncertainty over levels of future global heating make it impossible to forecast the date of any collapse for now. It could be within a decade or two, or several centuries away

So further down they are both continuing to use "collapse" and also admitting that no one knows when this thing will happen. And we all know how accurate those Covid models have been

Of course, if you can tell me how a wind system can collapse I'll bow to your superior knowledge but the scientists on the Today programme were keen to point out just how poorly worded the article is but ALSO how bad things would be if the AMOC changes did lead to starvation in the third world and further changing weather patterns here.

 

[Highfields Seagull]

That wasn't my point.

In the headline and opening paragraph they use the phrase "Gulf stream collapse". This is factually incorrect.

Then, even in the report, there is the paragraph

The complexity of the AMOC system and uncertainty over levels of future global heating make it impossible to forecast the date of any collapse for now. It could be within a decade or two, or several centuries away

So further down they are both continuing to use "collapse" and also admitting that no one knows when this thing will happen. And we all know how accurate those Covid models have been

Of course, if you can tell me how a wind system can collapse I'll bow to your superior knowledge but the scientists on the Today programme were keen to point out just how poorly worded the article is but ALSO how bad things would be if the AMOC changes did lead to starvation in the third world and further changing weather patterns here.

Without getting into the detail, of which I have little expertise, isn't the Gulf Stream a current system rather than a wind system, and therefore affected by the increase in fresh water from melting ice caps? The Jet Stream is the wind/weather system.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Without getting into the detail, of which I have little expertise, isn't the Gulf Stream a current system rather than a wind system, and therefore affected by the increase in fresh water from melting ice caps? The Jet Stream is the wind/weather system.

This.

 

[Baldseagull]

That wasn't my point.

In the headline and opening paragraph they use the phrase "Gulf stream collapse". This is factually incorrect.

Then, even in the report, there is the paragraph

The complexity of the AMOC system and uncertainty over levels of future global heating make it impossible to forecast the date of any collapse for now. It could be within a decade or two, or several centuries away

So further down they are both continuing to use "collapse" and also admitting that no one knows when this thing will happen. And we all know how accurate those Covid models have been

Of course, if you can tell me how a wind system can collapse I'll bow to your superior knowledge but the scientists on the Today programme were keen to point out just how poorly worded the article is but ALSO how bad things would be if the AMOC changes did lead to starvation in the third world and further changing weather patterns here.

Ocean currents affect air currents, I don't know enough about it to answer you definitively, but it would make logical sense to me that a change in ocean temperatures, due to a change in ocean currents, would affect air temperatures and currents. The Gulf Stream is part of the AMOC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NthIpxsxvjI&t=103s

 

[studio150]

 

[Giraffe]

They need to fine a way to stop people moving about and stop eating meat. Covid helped the former, so expect something else to follow soon, but what will they do about the latter?

I'd love the world's Government to finally take this seriously as I feel most populations would now be amenable to proper change on this.

 

[vegster]

Quite.

My next remark will most likely take this thread straight to the Bear Pit but…

Those complaining about the numbers of migrants coming to this country haven’t seen a thing yet. Large chunks of this planet are likely to become inhospitable to sustaining human life in its current form. Residents of those areas will heading to more temperate zones in huge numbers.

This is just the beginning and it terrifies me. Not the migrants. The unraveling of the climate as we know it and the resultant societal upheaval.

I expect the Green Party will become a real force in politics once the penny collectively drops and it’s actually far too late for them to do anything.

Pass me another beer. I’ve depressed myself.

Valid points, the ramping up of the Afghan civil war will also displace many more people in to nearby countries which will then push those migrants on to another nearby country...when people are genuinely desperate as their country is subsumed by war, famine, drought and Covid what are they going to do?