No black footballers in England All-time Greats DVD

[Mick Beard BHA]

I'm having trouble pasting the article here so i'll try to sumarise:

There's a copy of the Daily Mail floating around at work (not mine, honest!). In it there's a small article about a DVD the FA have produced, "The Pride of the Nation" which is included in a welcome pack for new members. Its a 30minutes selection of England's top players over the last 40 years.

However its caused a bit of a stir, as there are no black players included in the 17-man selection, which did included Moore, Bryan Robson, Shearer, Beckham, Butcher, Lineker, Bobby Charlton, Gascoigne, peters, Waddle, Pearce and Gerrard.

The list of greats was picked by "a list of stars", and some black players were included. However, the video producers cut the number of 'greats' down to 17 so that it did not exceed the 30 minutes running time.

A few questions for you England fans- do you think this is an error in judgement (especially considering the current importance of anti-racism initiatives)? Which (if any) black footballers should have made the list? etc etc

I'm not an England fan, but i have watched a fair few England games. I certainly dont think Gerrard warrants a mention in the category of 'greats' yet...

 

[JJ McClure]

Outrageous Paul Parker and Carlton Palmer are clearly England greats and should be included.

 

[beorhthelm]

Agree about Gerrad, if you can include such recent players then id want Campbell on the bench. It is strange to not have John Barnes, who was a great left winger, though many would disagree and claim he wasnt all that in internationals. Same goes for Ince.

 

[D'Angelo Saxon]

Danny Wallace - 1 cap, 1 goal. 100% record!

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

Agree about Gerrad, if you can include such recent players then id want Campbell on the bench. It is strange to not have John Barnes, who was a great left winger, though many would disagree and claim he wasnt all that in internationals. Same goes for Ince.

Its often said that Barnes played 1 and a quarter match's worth of brilliance (in Brazil '84, as sub v Argentina '86). Must say that i always thought his international form was pathetic in comparison to how jaw-droppingly good he was for Watford/Liverpool.

Ince is a strange one. I'm not sure he'd qualify in the 'top 17' of greats since the early 60's..

 

[bhafc4eva]

Not racist at all, its not anyones fault if no black players are exceptional enough to be called a great!

 

[Skaville]

I heard abou this on the radio. The thing is, who could you include?

John Barnes was too inconsistent. Ince was great but not in that league. Campbell is a good call, but i think Butcher and Moore are rightfully there ahead of him. Rio is not a legend yet.

It's political correctness gone mad.

 

[Uncle Buck]

To be honest I think it is a complete over reaction and indicitive of the direction that the FA have pushed Englandfans towards. It was an bit of a mistake by the people editing it, but really without the PC minded likes of Mark Perryman (Spurs fan who fronts up the London Englandfan group and has become something of a media whore on the back it, meaning he can write Sociology books on football, as post Sky he has got into football, oh and flog T-Shirts via his firm Philosophy Football, yes I really want a whackey football shirt with a quote from Plato on it, good one mate) this would never have been raised as an issue. There would have been some debate on the fact that Barnes had not been included, although in his 70 odd games for England, he did very little and in my opinion would not have been considered a great, however without the Perryman's of this world, it would have been the fact the player had not been included, rather than the fact that black players had not been included.

 

[Biscuit]

Just including black players for the sake of it it silly! They are their for ability only! You can't get into the realms of positive discrimination.

I can't believe we live in a world where you can't call a brainstorm a brainstrom because it offends people with epilepsy! They have to be called 'thought showers' or summin bollox.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Once again people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I am surprised there is no footage of Barnes' goal against Brazil but he was hardly GREAT for England.


Only other good black players I can think of who player regularly are Paul Ince and Des Walker. Neither of who were GREAT.

 

[Brovion]

Tend to agree Uncle Buck, Richie etc. In the case of John Barnes he scored one superb goal (and played an important role in the greatest ever football song) - but I would not call him an England 'great'.

I don't necessarily agree with the names chosen, but I don't have a problem with the fact they're all white. Tokenism and quotas are the very worst sort of patronising racism.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Tend to agree Uncle Buck, Richie etc. In the case of John Barnes he scored one superb goal (and played an important role in the greatest ever football song) - but I would not call him an England 'great'.

I don't necessarily agree with the names chosen, but I don't have a problem with the fact they're all white. Tokenism and quotas are the very worst sort of patronising racism.

Imagine the up roar if an England's worst players DVD was produced, some of the following would be on it;

Michael Ricketts, Andy Gray, Mark Chamberlain, Chris Powell, Carlton Palmer, Gary Charles, Brian Deane, John Salako

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Imagine the up roar if an England's worst players DVD was produced, some of the following would be on it;

Michael Ricketts, Andy Gray, Mark Chamberlain, Chris Powell, Carlton Palmer, Gary Charles, Brian Deane, John Salako

Tony Daly

 

[Pevenseagull]

Imagine the up roar if an England's worst players DVD was produced, some of the following would be on it;

Michael Ricketts, Andy Gray, Mark Chamberlain, Chris Powell, Carlton Palmer, Gary Charles, Brian Deane, John Salako

John Salako was great against Dave Watson's Hong Kong XI

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

I don't necessarily agree with the names chosen, but I don't have a problem with the fact they're all white. Tokenism and quotas are the very worst sort of patronising racism.

I suppose that was what i was interested in- its got to be downright offensive to include someone in as "token" hasnt it?

But with the UK's position almost at the forefront of anti-racisim/race awareness in football, is it still a bit of an owngoal? ('scuse the cliche).

Maybe the best option would have been to not produce a 'greats' dvd at all.

For the record, i would probably have Campbell in the list ahead of other recent England players, and that includes Beckham.

 

[Uncle Buck]

John Salako was great against Dave Watson's Hong Kong XI

So great he did not play. He was well out of the set up by then.

He was involved in that tour of Australia, New Zealand and Malaysia in 1991 and played a couple of games after that under Taylor and then was consigned by to where he belonged in Croydon and then Coventry.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

For the record, i would probably have Campbell in the list ahead of other recent England players, and that includes Beckham.

Why?

Campbell is a cracking player but I do not think he could be considered an England great yet.

 

[Mick Beard BHA]

Why? Campbell is a cracking player but I do not think he could be considered an England great yet.

Well, i think if you're going to have someone from France '98 onwards, i think Campbell has been pretty solid, very consistent, could've been more of a legend if a certain two goals had NOT been disallowed... Just warrants it as much as anyone else perhaps..

I'm not a Beckham hater though. I just feel that his performances since that incredible game against Greece have been mediocre to say the least.

 

[NMH]

I doubt the selection was done with "let's avoid black players" in mind.

Agree too, about Gerrard.....but also Peters Waddle and Pierce are questionable, and I believe there have been black players better than them.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Pearce "questionable"