Behind Enemy Lines
Well-known member
The Parliamentary maths means it’ll be a ten year project even if Starmer wins, unless Brexit goes horribly wrong, which it could.
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[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party
- Thread starter Bulldog
- Start date
The Parliamentary maths means it’ll be a ten year project even if Starmer wins, unless Brexit goes horribly wrong, which it could.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,419
not sure he does. he comes across very well presentation but no real politick. a center left Cameron with a desire to do something, not clear what.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
This is a depressing thread. NSC used to have Corbyn-backing momentum-loving Labour supporters. They have all but hidden. All that remains is moderates who fear that more of the same will ensue. Given the madness that ensued after the Brexit vote and the general bloody-mindedness of the electorate, I fully concur with the view that Labour will likely choose the least electable leader. Once again depressing, as we need a strong and stable opposition which will legitimately challenge the Tories.
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 3,006
Thank you Jim from Vicar of Dibley - I agree.
Jolly Red Giant
Well-known member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 2,615
I admire JRG's idealism, but I have heard it all before so many times....I like it as a 'voice' within labour, especially when matched with actual activity in the community, but sitting in an ivory tower hoping and praying that the working class will rise up.....for those unaware of the notion of Human Nature (and its frailties), read 1984 and Animal Farm
Both 1984 and Animal Farm are about Stalinism - and Animal Farm in particular demonstrates the determination of the working class to improve their situation. The closest representation of 1984 these days is actually the USA.
You talk about human nature (and its frailties) without outlining what you mean. As a general rule some people are cynical and view human beings as selfish, greedy and not giving a sh*t about anyone but themselves. The reality is that human beings have an enormous capacity for generosity, solidarity, cooperation, community endeavour and optimism - and I see examples of this every day of the week. We are all products of our environment - and we live in an environment that drives and agenda of dog-eat-dog and screw everyone else capitalism - yet human beings, as social animals, constantly reject this notion and work for the betterment of their fellow humans. Indeed - if working class people, despite being constantly brow-beaten by capitalism, didn't have all of these traits, capitalism could well have been overthrown generations ago.
Revolutionary upheavals occur on a constant basis - in the past 6 months alone in Hong Kong, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador etc - it is a constantly cycle of people acting as a cooperative movement to improve their lot in the world. Given the decaying nature of capitalism in its death agony - a workers revolution only has to occur once and the rest of the capitalist order will fall like dominoes.
As for sitting in an ivory tower - that is for the academics that you have spoken about previously (and the reason why I am not an academic) - I, and many others, engage with working class people on a daily basis, outlining the need to change society and standing in solidarity with workers and other oppressed layers assisting them in attempting to organise and protect their interests. I am an eternal optimist and I have complete confidence that working class people will move to change society. As for the praying - I dispensed with that a long, long time ago.
Jolly Red Giant
Well-known member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 2,615
It is quite an uninspiring rogues gallery of Blairites and technocrats with barely a socialist bone among any of them.
It’s brilliant isn’t it, who’s got your vote?
Genuine question if Corbyn was on that list as an option for members to vote for him to stay on , would you vote for him?
Did it (NSC used to have...)? Well, we have fake socialist wind-up merchant, enrest, and arriviste historian from overseas and tenuous Albion links, JRG. Everyone else vaguely left seems to have consistently been head in hands Blairite, or Blairite except in loathing of Blair for the Illegal War (which was neither illegal or, to be fair, a war) centre left.
Mind you, I don't recall a single cogent advocate of conservatism on NSC, ever, either.
Plenty of nobbers, though. Fortunately in a minority.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
I agree, but I think there were a few and there is still one here who thinks Corbyn was/is the answer.
In any case, we have got the politicians we deserve I suppose.
With all respect (and sorry if misinterpreted), but does that not make you a "moderate" as well then Green Cross Man?
Super Steve Earle
Well-known member
Do you have a sense of humour Wolfie? You remind me of Ben's Grandad with your long winded replies. Views such as yours have been put forward all my life, but will never take hold. Selling revolution in Iran, Iraq, Hong Kong etc as the desired outcome to your dreams is precisely why. Apart from red zealots like you, nobody else actually wants your revolution. Even the rest of the North Stand Chat Popular Front has gone underground again.
BensGrandad
New member
I wouldn't think that Boris or his team are particularly worried who wins.
I'm not sure about that: Starmer would take Johnson to pieces every week on PMQ - he's an extremely sharp cookie. Although, some sources say that the Tories feared Rayner more than any other candidate, so are probably relieved that she isn't standing.
I do think, to a certain extent, it's almost irrelevant who wins. If Brexit is a roaring success, Labour could be led by a combination of Jesus Christ, Mahatma Gandhi and Albert Einstein and they'd still lose. If Brexit is a disaster, Labour could appoint Coco the Clown as leader and they'd still win.
It's going to be fun though, I'm thinking of rejoining the party just to have a say
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
I expect they are all paid up Labour Party members so they can no doubt vote in their choice
jakarta
Well-known member
Unless you drive a white van, in which case you may have a few doubts...
What’s there to think about?
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
Perhaps I am a moderate? I do not feel a particular party allegiance though. I voted Tory as a long time Brexiteer but am not massively happy with everything in the Tory party. Who knows, they may turn out better than I imagined?
I think that to be electable, Labour needs to be real. Militant stopped the Labour party from becoming elected in the 70's. We were, as a society, far poorer then than now. In order for the kind of revolution that the hard left wants, we need to be made considerably poorer than we were then. The problem is too many of us are doing okay or rather well. The balance tips and then it favours a more left leaning stance, but a candidate like Corbyn would need the country at its knees in order for him to be electable. The problem with the hard left is idealism, once one gives into an idealistic mentality, one loses sight of objectivity and that does not help the party keep a direction which is able to adapt and be in tune with the electorate.
The largely discredited Blair and Brown were moderate politicians. Although I guess many socialists believed them to be right wing in economic policy. I liked the more caring social policies for schools and families for instance, they really helped me when my kids were very small. But some of the Brexit mess can be traced back to those days when it was a policy of Labour to encourage mass immigration, and they relied on those immigrants in the future as they believed would likely vote Labour in further elections. This policy allowed right wingers to whip up disquiet and also encouraged poor and despicable campaigning in the Referendum by some favouring leave. Of course Merkel also didn't help.
Labour has a choice as it did in the 70's and 80's when Kinnock eventually expelled militant from the party. If Labour doesn't get it right, however well or badly Brexit goes, they will be unelected for far more than the current 4 elections. That is very bad for democracy and very bad for our country.
Uncle C
Well-known member
Did you really say "strong and stable" !!
No expert me, but I seem to detect a degree of socialism in Clive Lewis and RLB.
Maybe it just isn't enough to register on JRG's Richter scale of proper socialism, though!
