[Football] Nathan Jones

[blue-shifted]

Anyone who makes the Nathan Jones been gone too long joke for the 896,774th time, is even more so

 

[blue-shifted]

As stated before, Stoke’s problem may be that they can’t afford to sack him. They’ve properly backed him in the transfer market, their wage bill is probably higher than some Premier League clubs and their parachute payments are running out this year. The last thing they can afford to do is pay up a manager who has years left on a long term contract. If they did they’ll have to find another manager, who they may need to spend more money to poach (or may not if it’s CH), but in any case if they are any good they are going to want certain assurances about being able to buy quality in January.

Coates may sack Jones. Or he may reason his best bet is to cross his fingers and pray to god that Jones comes good.

 

[GT49er]

Not at all. I don't know if it was on this thread or another but I posted about the time of Jones's move that he was making a mistake: that it was better to stay at Luton, get another club on his CV, than move to a club that's in decline, with a trigger-happy board. That's not hindsight: I was quite clear on my opinion.

Yes, he'd get a short-term boost to his salary but my argument was that, in the long term, it would be better to have a couple of promotions on a CV than one promotion and an ignominious sacking.

He wasn't offered "the chance to take a team to the bottom of the Championship"! He was offered the chance to take over at a bigger club (with parachute payments as someone pointed out) with reasonable expectations of taking them to the PL. Not surprising that as an ambitious man he took the bigger, better opportunity.
OK, it hasn't worked out well, but still 99 out of 100, if not more, would probably make the same choice.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Personally, I think it was the right move for him but at the wrong time. He would have been far better off taking a Championship job at the end of the season, so he could have had the whole transfer window in order to move on the players he didn't want or were earning too much for the club to choose to keep.

I think his biggest problem is the constant rotation of his players - he hasn't stumbled upon a winning formula. He constantly changes the formation and the players, Butland this season has been in and out which is partly due to his being prone to a ridiculous clanger or five, but also probably don't really help. Especially when your second choice is Adam Federici. Bottom line, 2 points in 10 games for a team which, on paper, should be competing in the top 10. The Championship is a very tough league, but they have the players to turn it around. Something needs to change, immediately. Swansea away is the last game you'd want if you had one game left.

 

[Simster]

Players are really letting him down in my opinion, but its his job to sort that.

He inherited some absolute shite on big wages: Tom Ince, James Mclean, Jack Butland and so on. None of them are any good and you could argue that he was always going to struggle to get them playing well. Where he's gone wrong is over the summer - he's brought in even some worse players and abandoned all his principles like his fabled diamond formation - and has increasingly sounded like a charlatan in his pressers.

 

[Gazwag]

Anyone who makes the Nathan Jones been gone too long joke for the 896,774th time, is even more so

And all he's needed was a just little of time

 

[Easy 10]

Personally, I think it was the right move for him but at the wrong time. He would have been far better off taking a Championship job at the end of the season, so he could have had the whole transfer window in order to move on the players he didn't want or were earning too much for the club to choose to keep.

I disagree. He took over in the middle of January, with Stoke sitting 14th in the table. So no imminent risk of relegation, it wasn't a firefighting job. It gave him half a season to assess the squad and prepare for a proper tilt at promotion in 2019/20, safe in the knowledge that he had a chairman who would fully back him in the transfer market that summer with some parachute money. He'd have been NUTS to have turned that down.

I don't know whats gone wrong since then. Primarily from the outside looking in it appears there's been some poor recruitment, and he still doesn't know his best team. But the notion that he should've stayed at Luton and waited for something else to come along is bobbins. Stoke was a huge step up for him, one that he couldn't turn down. As we're now seeing, it would seem he's bitten off more than he can chew, but it doesn't mean he was wrong to take a bite.

 

[darkwolf666]

I disagree. He took over in the middle of January, with Stoke sitting 14th in the table. So no imminent risk of relegation, it wasn't a firefighting job. It gave him half a season to assess the squad and prepare for a proper tilt at promotion in 2019/20, safe in the knowledge that he had a chairman who would fully back him in the transfer market that summer with some parachute money. He'd have been NUTS to have turned that down.

I don't know whats gone wrong since then. Primarily from the outside looking in it appears there's been some poor recruitment, and he still doesn't know his best team. But the notion that he should've stayed at Luton and waited for something else to come along is bobbins. Stoke was a huge step up for him, one that he couldn't turn down. As we're now seeing, it would seem he's bitten off more than he can chew, but it doesn't mean he was wrong to take a bite.

Maybe, just maybe he's not as good as he/people think he is?

 

[Easy 10]

Maybe, just maybe he's not as good as he/people think he is?

Yup, possibly.

He worked wonders on a shoestring budget at Luton. But maybe at Stoke there's an element of "well who the f*ck are you ?" towards him from some of the more high profile former Premier League players in that dressing room. Jones has only ever been a noddy lower division journeyman throughout his playing and managerial career, so he's not got much on his CV thats going to impress. If his methods aren't working there (which clearly they aren't) then I wouldn't be surprised if his credibility with the players had already started quite low, and has only nosedived since.

 

[crodonilson]

I think it's difficult to overestimate just what a horlicks he has made of the job. Taking them from an underachieving midtable side who should be pushing for promotion to the worst record in League football in little under a year. A win percentage of barely 10% with at that level a decent squad of players.

 

[JBizzle]

I think it's difficult to overestimate just what a horlicks he has made of the job. Taking them from an underachieving midtable side who should be pushing for promotion to the worst record in League football in little under a year. A win percentage of barely 10% with at that level a decent squad of players.

In fairness, some of their players have absolutely dropped off a cliff. Butland alone has cost them at least 5 points and those mistakes aren't down to Jones' coaching.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I disagree. He took over in the middle of January, with Stoke sitting 14th in the table. So no imminent risk of relegation, it wasn't a firefighting job. It gave him half a season to assess the squad and prepare for a proper tilt at promotion in 2019/20, safe in the knowledge that he had a chairman who would fully back him in the transfer market that summer with some parachute money. He'd have been NUTS to have turned that down.

I don't know whats gone wrong since then. Primarily from the outside looking in it appears there's been some poor recruitment, and he still doesn't know his best team. But the notion that he should've stayed at Luton and waited for something else to come along is bobbins. Stoke was a huge step up for him, one that he couldn't turn down. As we're now seeing, it would seem he's bitten off more than he can chew, but it doesn't mean he was wrong to take a bite.

I do agree it wasn't something he was going to turn down. And I'm probably talking with a fair amount of hindsight, because I definitely thought it was the right move at the right time at the time. I think he's a good coach but he's struggled to establish what his best team is. He has switched formations regularly, switched players in and out and spent money on players which aren't better than the ones he already had available. He's probably tried to change too much too soon and might be guilty of overthinking the tactics.

He needs to strip everything back and say to the squad there's one game. Swansea away. If the players are with him, they'll turn in a performance but if they're not - they'll lose the game and he'll be gone come sunday evening. Whatever happens, as I think you said previously, he's done very well out of it financially and to expand on that point, he's gained good experience. He'll find himself at a League 1 club before the end of the season and he'll rebuild his reputation.

 

[crodonilson]

He has no clue who his best team is, he's used 26 players in the league so far this season in 10 games. Madness.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

He has no clue who his best team is, he's used 26 players in the league so far this season in 10 games. Madness.

I have a bit of a habit of going through the team line ups for most games on a weekly basis using the Livescore app on my phone, and they may not be totally reliable - but if they're to be believed, the formation regularly changes from game to game and the players are in and out all over the place. No player can get into a rhythm that way.

It's not coincidence that when the Brighton team picked itself in the promotion season, we were successful. First season in the Premier League - successful without needing to change the team all the time.

08/09 on the other hand - where the stat was 42 players we used (I think), almost a catastrophe. He needs to settle on a team, he should stick with what started against Huddersfield and try to get them creating a chance or two.

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

He has no clue who his best team is, he's used 26 players in the league so far this season in 10 games. Madness.

I don't think that is so bad - we've used 21 players in 7 games by comparison.

He's doing a shite job though.

 

[Ernest]

Has he gone yet

 

[Gwylan]

He inherited some absolute shite on big wages: Tom Ince, James Mclean, Jack Butland and so on. None of them are any good and you could argue that he was always going to struggle to get them playing well.

Yup, possibly.

He worked wonders on a shoestring budget at Luton. But maybe at Stoke there's an element of "well who the f*ck are you ?" towards him from some of the more high profile former Premier League players in that dressing room.

Those are precisely the two reasons why I thought he'd struggle. I can see why an ambititous manager would want to move but he was sitting pretty in League I with Luton. He could have had another promotion on his CV and move four months later for a club with better prospects. A club recently out of the PL would have a bunch of deluded players that an inexperienced manager was going to struggle with. Stoke should have picked someone like BFS to sort that out.

Jones is young; he could have bided his time. Now, he's tainted with failure

 

[Billy in Bristol]

The Athletic Andy Naylor is suggesting that Chris Hughton would be an ideal fit.

 

[Easy 10]

Those are precisely the two reasons why I thought he'd struggle. I can see why an ambititous manager would want to move but he was sitting pretty in League I with Luton. He could have had another promotion on his CV and move four months later for a club with better prospects. A club recently out of the PL would have a bunch of deluded players that an inexperienced manager was going to struggle with. Stoke should have picked someone like BFS to sort that out.

Jones is young; he could have bided his time. Now, he's tainted with failure

1. He might not have got Luton promoted. When he left they were in 2nd place, but just 1 point ahead of Sunderland and 3 points ahead of Charlton. Yes they were going well, but it was far from sitting pretty, they certainly didn't have it in the bag. He could've turned down Stoke and ended up still stuck in L1. Biding his time wouldn't have looked quite so smart then.

2. You say he could've waited for a club with better prospects - like who ? Stoke are a big club who were fancied to be challenging at the right end, and had a decent budget for him to work with. Those types of opportunities don't come along all that often, its not a basket-case club.

He was offered the job while his stock was high, and it was exactly the type of challenge he would've been after. The fact its gone tits up doesn't mean he was wrong to jump ship at that time. It was an opportunity anyone in his position would've grabbed with both hands.

 

[Paris]

Nathan Jones to be let go by Stoke at 11am.

Hughton to be announced as his replacement at 6pm.