Milliband about to get torn a new one by Paxman on C4 now

[Not Andy Naylor]

Spot on. I have worked under two Labour and two Conservative terms and Labour has turned out worse both times, as a working class chap i am annoyed that Labour are not the party for the working man.

And my experience is precisely the opposite - I've always worked (and earned) more under Labour governments.

Just coincidence, no doubt. But I've never seen any evidence that the Tory sell-outs to finance and big business create the slightest bit of extra opportunity for the working class, who are being persuaded once again to vote against their own best interests because a bloke can't eat a bacon sandwich and a hollow man like Cameron who stands for nothing but his own desire to be re-elected is presented as somehow more "Prime Ministerial."

 

[Soulman]

The UK is where I was born and where I was raised. It's where my family and a lot of friends live. It will always be part of me and I therefore want what is best for it and want it to be fairer. I do care about it, do hugely admire some elements of it, although at times it frustrates me. I only have one vote and that's the Uk and I don't want to waste it.

I chose to live in Germany. It was a choice totally based on lifestyle and mindset and unaffected by work or partners as many decisions can be. As it was my choice it feels daft to complain about things here; like choosing to buy a yellow car and then complaining it's yellow. If, overall, I don't like it, then I will just move to somewhere I do like. I therefore don't currently have a connection like I do with the UK .....even though my UK connection was forced on me by my birthplace and at times I feel it's an absurd artificial link. I therefore don't align myself to any party here. And whilst I can vote in some elections I choose not as I don't currently feel it's my position or place. All of this might change over time though. I do like PR and can see real sense and value in the coalitions here.

I agree on the PR, and thanks for explaining.

 

[Soulman]

I think if the Labour Party championed the working person more, and championed the youth, they'd clean up. I'm not convinced elections are won on the middle-ground any more.

Good call. Labour had plenty of chance/time to do those things in 13 years, instead they let the youth down and the working person. They chose to bring in massive numbers from abroad which affected the working person, and the youth. Maybe training OUR youth would have been a better idea.
What irks me, amongst other policies, is that Labour did this for "political" reasons, to secure votes for their party, just shows what they think of the people that already live here.

 

[jimbob5]

Good call. Labour had plenty of chance/time to do those things in 13 years, instead they let the youth down and the working person. They chose to bring in massive numbers from abroad which affected the working person, and the youth. Maybe training OUR youth would have been a better idea.
What irks me, amongst other policies, is that Labour did this for "political" reasons, to secure votes for their party, just shows what they think of the people that already live here.

Trouble is, it's the young who don't bother to vote, the young who cause accidents, the young who ruin the environment dropping litter, the young who commit crime …………. generally speaking of course.

 

[Soulman]

Trouble is, it's the young who don't bother to vote, the young who cause accidents, the young who ruin the environment dropping litter, the young who commit crime …………. generally speaking of course.

Well i was young once, surely these things were around then, but by having a chance to be employed and achieve, certainly helped.
So what has gone wrong, i think most have a few ideas, don't you.

 

[jimbob5]

Well i was young once, surely these things were around then, but by having a chance to be employed and achieve, certainly helped.
So what has gone wrong, i think most have a few ideas, don't you.

You don't need to tell ME you were young once! In fact it probably doesn't seem that long ago. Youth unemployment always was a problem as was the cost of housing etc etc.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Trouble is, it's the young who don't bother to vote, the young who cause accidents, the young who ruin the environment dropping litter, the young who commit crime …………. generally speaking of course.

And they listen to awful music where you can't understand a word they're singing about.

 

[jimbob5]

And they listen to awful music where you can't understand a word they're singing about.

Is that so? If it was their worst crime that would not be a problem then.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Is that so? If it was their worst crime that would not be a problem then.

I was making another common sweeping generalisation to add to the ones you listed

 

[jimbob5]

Good call. Labour had plenty of chance/time to do those things in 13 years, instead they let the youth down and the working person. They chose to bring in massive numbers from abroad which affected the working person, and the youth. Maybe training OUR youth would have been a better idea.
What irks me, amongst other policies, is that Labour did this for "political" reasons, to secure votes for their party, just shows what they think of the people that already live here.

Labour made mistakes which is one reason why they did not vote David Milliband, a Blair cheerleader to be their leader. Unfortunately the attitude of your voter, particularly the yoof, was spend spend spend, to hell with tomorrow, don't be a bore! etc etc

 

[piersa]

Labour made mistakes which is one reason why they did not vote David Milliband, a Blair cheerleader to be their leader. Unfortunately the attitude of your voter, particularly the yoof, was spend spend spend, to hell with tomorrow, don't be a bore! etc etc

wasn't the main reason it was ed and not david due to the union vote?

 

[jimbob5]

I was making another common sweeping generalisation to add to the ones you listed

I said generally speaking these things are true. Inconvenient and not down with the kids, I know. I was risking a predictable, cheap and unoriginal swipe though for sure.

 

[jimbob5]

wasn't the main reason it was ed and not david due to the union vote?

yeah the unions swung it away from DM

 

[Bry Nylon]

wasn't the main reason it was ed and not david due to the union vote?

yeah the unions swung it away from DM

Yes. The majority vote in the Parliamentary Labour Party and vote of the Labour Party membership in the country was in favour of David Milliband. However, the Union vote ended up giving the leadership to Ed. The unions believed Ed to be more sympathetic to their cause, plus they viewed him to be weaker than David and thus more easily influenced by union power. Ironically, the weaknesses the unions identified and sought to exploit for their own ends are what is making it such a tight race.

Had the view of the PLP and the Labour Party prevailed and David become Leader, Labour would be home and dry by now and looking at a landslide.

 

[jimbob5]

Yes. The majority vote in the Parliamentary Labour Party and vote of the Labour Party membership in the country was in favour of David Milliband. However, the Union vote ended up giving the leadership to Ed. The unions believed Ed to be more sympathetic to their cause, plus they viewed him to be weaker than David and thus more easily influenced by union power. Ironically, the weaknesses the unions identified and sought to exploit for their own ends are what is making it such a tight race.

Had the view of the PLP and the Labour Party prevailed and David become Leader, Labour would be home and dry by now and looking at a landslide.

You think the voter would rush out to vote for Labour because their leader would be the same DNA as the likes of Mandy, Straw, Becket, Byers, Blair etc?

 

[Soulman]

I was making another common sweeping generalisation to add to the ones you listed

Nice to see this then.
http://katm.co.uk/employees-refuse-...-war-veteran-when-he-bought-a-new-smartphone/

 

[jimbob5]

Nice to see this then.
http://katm.co.uk/employees-refuse-...-war-veteran-when-he-bought-a-new-smartphone/

Incredible when you think about it. A 98 year old chap fighting for our freedom! What were all the young lads doing? At home playing with their hoola hoops and listening to big band music!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nice to see this then.
http://katm.co.uk/employees-refuse-...-war-veteran-when-he-bought-a-new-smartphone/

That's a nice story. And fair play to the 98 year old as I'm certain I will not be able to operate a smart phone at his age.

As an aside I do get fed up when older people make generalisations and judgements about the youngsters and even worse demonise them for society's ills and completely ignore the fact it's our generation which has totally ****ed up and our generation which still has the audacity to tell everyone how it should be done.

 

[Hastings gull]

That's a nice story. And fair play to the 98 year old as I'm certain I will not be able to operate a smart phone at his age.

As an aside I do get fed up when older people make generalisations and judgements about the youngsters and even worse demonise them for society's ills and completely ignore the fact it's our generation which has totally ****ed up and our generation which still has the audacity to tell everyone how it should be done.

Do you not think that this is just a bit OTT? We all make generalisations, yourself included, and so long as you accept it is only generally true, then that this is surely OK. As ever most young people are fine, but I do think that it is generally true that young people are less likely to stay together as married couples compared to older generations. Do we demonise them for society's ills - is this not a generalisation which you say you are against?! As to whether our generation has xxxx up, as you delicately put it, this is easily open to debate. Society has its problems, as will always be the case, but growing up in 21st century Western Europe with its freedoms, huge measure of tolerance, and largely material well-being, compared to many years ago, is hardly evidence of "xxxup ness".

 

[jimbob5]

Do you not think that this is just a bit OTT? We all make generalisations, yourself included, and so long as you accept it is only generally true, then that this is surely OK. As ever most young people are fine, but I do think that it is generally true that young people are less likely to stay together as married couples compared to older generations. Do we demonise them for society's ills - is this not a generalisation which you say you are against?! As to whether our generation has xxxx up, as you delicately put it, this is easily open to debate. Society has its problems, as will always be the case, but growing up in 21st century Western Europe with its freedoms, huge measure of tolerance, and largely material well-being, compared to many years ago, is hardly evidence of "xxxup ness".

Exactly. I'm fed up with 'young people' not bothering to vote but blaming everything on people who are NOT 'young people' as if non 'young people' are from a different planet. GENERALLY speaking, not voting, crime, dropping litter, being abusive is more likely to be done by our cherished 'young ones'. Obviously some 'young people' are great. Instead of us non 'young people' blaming ourselves it would be nice to here a 'young person' say those non 'young people' are not that bad, they were young just like me once and some of us, including our mates are a complete pain in the bum.