Middlesbrough fans banned for life for ripping up Koran

[Uncle Spielberg]

Thanks very much, should I go away then?

No fight your point. Don't let anyone stop you.

 

[martyn20]

Martyn20, you seem to have conveniently side stepped this point?

My point was any religious hatred is wrong, especially when exercised at a football match. Someone else has turned it into an Islam v Christian debate.
I have no faith but I respect anyone else's right to practice theirs whatever that is. Others do not seem to think this freedom applies to Islam in the UK.

 

[Bladders]

Good

What a wet ****ing blanket you are

 

[Leighgull]

What if they'd been ripping up a bible? The worst they'd get then would be a littering ticket.

 

[martyn20]

What a wet ****ing blanket you are

And that's your contribution!!!!

 

[Bladders]

And that's your contribution!!!!

Says it all really

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Thanks very much, should I go away then?

Yes go away on holiday and CHILL out it will do you good mate

 

[Creaky]

What if they'd been ripping up a bible? The worst they'd get then would be a littering ticket.

Let's for just one minute say you're correct in that assumption - does that make either tearing up the Qur'an or the Bible at a football match with the intent to offend OK? - I would say no.

 

[Caveman]

I'm trying to get my head around how anyone could support the actions of someone who takes a copy of the Qur'an, a book they clearly have no respect for, to a football match. Then sets about tearing out pages, passing then to fellow fans making clear which book they were from whilst chanting, "England".

The only possible motives for such actions is to either demonstrate their contempt for Islam or those who practice that religion.

Supporting such actions is akin to supporting the throwing of bananas - in itself an innocent action but with a clear motive behind it.

I guess that is a question that should be asked to the blokes who were arrested? There clearly is a division of culture, faith, race in certain areas. Pissed up blokes and someone passing them said book results in this kind of behaviour I guess.

 

[Bladders]

And that's your contribution!!!!

.....and **** off back to that other shit forum you cried off to when you were all queuing up to finger lady gull

 

[Eeyore]

Yes, I do honestly think that it would not happen.

I think you're wrong Woody.

Three cases spring to mind. A Muslim who held up a placard at a demonstration calling for the beheading of British soldiers, a young Asian lad who suggested British soldiers should be killed on a posting in facebook. Also a group of Asians who leafleted a community in Derby calling for homosexuals to be executed.

All three were prosecuted, at least one of the third being sent to prison. It follows that if a Bible was burnt as an act of provocation, and hence reported, the Police have to act. All we read in the papers is the short-comings in the application of the Public Order Act that suit their own political agenda.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Whilst this is attempting to attack his point at the end of the day that is the fault of the legal system, whilst in my eyes the punishment of that case was not severe enough it does not mean that the Middlesborough fans' actions were any less of a crime or received an unjust punishment.

The fact that Martyn20 has failed to respond to this has nothing to do with the legal system.

 

[Caveman]

Let's for just one minute say you're correct in that assumption - does that make either tearing up the Qur'an or the Bible at a football match with the intent to offend OK? - I would say no.

I think the point he was making is the crime and punishment would not result in the same outcome due to political egg shells.

Like I said a life ban from Middlesbrough? Is this punishment?

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm assuming that this action was done with the large population of Muslims in Birmingham as its underlying thought.

Whether people think the action itself is offensive or not, the motive is the issue at hand. I care little for Islamic doctrine but would be quite shocked if I saw someone tearing up the Koran, or the Bible for that matter, at a football match. What on earth was their intention ?

In a mature society, disagreement is healthy, but blatant provocation and deliberate acts that are intended to cause hurt or offence are not. We have grown up.

Mindless public actions like this cannot happen without the expectation of some sort of consequence.

As regards the old chestnut of being a 'Christian country', it is a subjugating phrase that has hijacked the true gospel meaning of Christianity for political purposes. Christianity is a faith, like Islam, it is certainly not a set of laws or a cultural way of life. This term comes from the, ever loosening, alliance of the church and the state. Decent standards and values exist within all faiths, if that is what people are referring to. But all too often this phrase has an undercurrent of latent cultural racism, effectively meaning 'White, anglo-saxon country'. That is why, despite being a Christian myself (through faith, not cultural understanding) I despise the notion that we are a 'Christian country'. Faith, the state, and inherent cultural understandings should always be separate things-unlike commonly held values.

Remind me, the first word of our national anthem (2nd oldest in the world) is...........?

The national flags of Scotland, England, NI and even the "other" welsh one have what in common?

The national days in all these countries that make up UK, have what in common?

You might not like the fact the fact that we are a Christian country...........our heritage says otherwise.

 

[martyn20]

The fact that Martyn20 has failed to respond to this has nothing to do with the legal system.

I have responded but tell me the real reason?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

My point was any religious hatred is wrong, especially when exercised at a football match. Someone else has turned it into an Islam v Christian debate.
I have no faith but I respect anyone else's right to practice theirs whatever that is. Others do not seem to think this freedom applies to Islam in the UK.

Do you think a Muslim should be banned/fined/taken to court for tearing up a few pages of the bible? What about if they tore up some vedic texts? The problem with having a religious hatred law is that each religion's view on what causes religious offence differs. Often, in the Muslim tradition, there is a distinct lack of open liberalism which has been the recent religious tradition of western Europe and to a degree America. This was always going to cause pain and conflict.

 

[Creaky]

I guess that is a question that should be asked to the blokes who were arrested? There clearly is a division of culture, faith, race in certain areas. Pissed up blokes and someone passing them a book results in this kind of behaviour I guess.

I wasn't having difficulty in understanding what the aims or intents of those who did this were - what I can't understand is how anyone could support on a public forum what they did, unless they want to make clear their own contempt for Islam or those who practice that religion in addition to contempt for the law and the feelings of others.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I'm trying to get my head around how anyone could support the actions of someone who takes a copy of the Qur'an, a book they clearly have no respect for, to a football match. Then sets about tearing out pages, passing then to fellow fans making clear which book they were from whilst chanting, "England".

The only possible motives for such actions is to either demonstrate their contempt for Islam or those who practice that religion.

Supporting such actions is akin to supporting the throwing of bananas - in itself an innocent action but with a clear motive behind it.

I am going to an extreme, but.....

If I publicly destroy a copy of the 'Famous Five do something outdated and was even considered square back in the 50's', by pixxing on it and dousing it in petrol and igniting it, does this mean that the state will prosecute me because I have offended Mumsnet?

 

[martyn20]

Do you think a Muslim should be banned/fined/taken to court for tearing up a few pages of the bible? What about if they tore up some vedic texts? The problem with having a religious hatred law is that each religion's view on what causes religious offence differs. Often, in the Muslim tradition, there is a distinct lack of open liberalism which has been the recent religious tradition of western Europe and to a degree America. This was always going to cause pain and conflict.

Anyone who does something that targets someone else for their faith should have to take the consequences.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I reckon in another 20 years this country is going to be a horrible place to live in. It will be made horrible because of peoples religion. It hasn't happened in sussex yet, but when you start getting other peoples churches appearing everywhere that area eventually changes, and generally people who have nothing to do with that religion have to leave the area. Stupid governments and stupid politically correct people for letting it happen.