Mark Duggan - BBC documentary

[portlock seagull]

I'm so sorry that they were "appalled". Diddums. My comment has in no way affected their lives so I'll pass on feeling bad about it if that's OK.

I did not say that all police officers are the same although that seems to be how you've chosen to interpret it.. Anyone who isn't a confrontational dick could have seen that. I'm actually rather concerned that you felt the need to show the comment to people. In what situation would you do that? Bit weird, and a bit sad.

Anyway, as far as what I was actually saying, try being on the receiving end and you might not be wandering around with your rose tinted glasses. Honestly, I hope you never have to take them off as the truth is not something that anyone wants to experience. I wouldn't even wish it on someone as blinkered and short sighted as you because I'm a decent person.

We'd all like to believe in British justice and the integrity of our police force but the reality has been proven time and time again to be something very different. I'd like you to leave this alone now to be honest as I can't elaborate to prove my point and it's also something which has almost destroyed my life and that of my family over the past year and a bit and is still ongoing. From the horses mouth if you like.

Believe what you like mate, you're wrong.

Think your credibility would be much better if you dropped the many snipes. Evidently you have been wronged, at least in your opinion, by the Police. You say you're not saying they're all bad and yet your text and tone doesn't make me believe you. You actually come across as you've given up on them and perhaps the entire justice system because of your personal experience. I can understand that, but equally it's just not the case that the Police aren't overwhelmingly a force for good.

It reminds me of an incident that I was outraged about years ago when a mate was 'fitted up' by HH police after being gooby to some officers who then arrested him. He was charged with being drunk and disorderly (in fairness he'd been drinking and was being silly) but when charged they said he was threatening towards the wpc not the PC. So sounded a lot worse. Got off with a warning from the judge but could easily have been jailed. I really felt angry at the time on his behalf. With time and I'm sure he'd agree, he could have totally avoided the potential miscarriage of justice by not being a gobby prick towards some police officers after too much alcohol. But if you are, as has been made plenty of times in this thread, you run the risk of......Then it's a bit late though to complain.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Think your credibility would be much better if you dropped the many snipes. Evidently you have been wronged, at least in your opinion, by the Police. You say you're not saying they're all bad and yet your text and tone doesn't make me believe you. You actually come across as you've given up on them and perhaps the entire justice system because of your personal experience. I can understand that, but equally it's just not the case that the Police aren't overwhelmingly a force for good.

It reminds me of an incident that I was outraged about years ago when a mate was 'fitted up' by HH police after being gooby to some officers who then arrested him. He was charged with being drunk and disorderly (in fairness he'd been drinking and was being silly) but when charged they said he was threatening towards the wpc not the PC. So sounded a lot worse. Got off with a warning from the judge but could easily have been jailed. I really felt angry at the time on his behalf. With time and I'm sure he'd agree, he could have totally avoided the potential miscarriage of justice by not being a gobby prick towards some police officers after too much alcohol. But if you are, as has been made plenty of times in this thread, you run the risk of......Then it's a bit late though to complain.

Thanks for your input. Completely irrelevant to what I've posted or my situation, but that's fine. I was actually just asking one person to leave this alone because it's pretty personal to me and pointing out that all coppers aren't angels.

I don't care what you think about my credibility mate, bigger fish to fry. Just be aware that anyone can end up in serious trouble if someone in a position of power wants them to be.

It's then entirely up to you to prove that you're innocent. And you have to pay for it. Massively. As I said, I'd wish it on no one else.

But cheers for your concern anyway.

 

[portlock seagull]

Thanks for your input. Completely irrelevant to what I've posted or my situation, but that's fine. I was actually just asking one person to leave this alone because it's pretty personal to me and pointing out that all coppers aren't angels.

I don't care what you think about my credibility mate, bigger fish to fry. Just be aware that anyone can end up in serious trouble if someone in a position of power wants them to be.

It's then entirely up to you to prove that you're innocent. And you have to pay for it. Massively. As I said, I'd wish it on no one else.

But cheers for your concern anyway.

Why be so disingenuous? Makes it difficult to believe your personal story if clearly all your 'thanks' and 'cheers' are clearly not meant. Anyway, yes, we all know there are miscarriages. Which includes the many not guilty verdicts perhaps? Who knows, but on balance I'm convinced Police get majority right. I hope your experience, regardless, is something you can get over. If your bike got nicked tomorrow and the police recovered, returned and then got a conviction I'm sure you wouldn't plead innocence for the thief but applaud Police for doing their job and serving you as a member of the general public?

 

[Hastings gull]

They might be appalled, but are they surprised? This is not an uncommon view of the police.

I accept what you say and that we all recognise that in any organisation there will be "rotten eggs". That is not to say that that view of the Police in general is fair or reasonable. No one thinks that all police officers behave in an unprofessional way, even if a small minority do.

 

[Hastings gull]

I'm so sorry that they were "appalled". Diddums. My comment has in no way affected their lives so I'll pass on feeling bad about it if that's OK.

I did not say that all police officers are the same although that seems to be how you've chosen to interpret it.. Anyone who isn't a confrontational dick could have seen that. I'm actually rather concerned that you felt the need to show the comment to people. In what situation would you do that? Bit weird, and a bit sad.

Anyway, as far as what I was actually saying, try being on the receiving end and you might not be wandering around with your rose tinted glasses. Honestly, I hope you never have to take them off as the truth is not something that anyone wants to experience. I wouldn't even wish it on someone as blinkered and short sighted as you because I'm a decent person.

We'd all like to believe in British justice and the integrity of our police force but the reality has been proven time and time again to be something very different. I'd like you to leave this alone now to be honest as I can't elaborate to prove my point and it's also something which has almost destroyed my life and that of my family over the past year and a bit and is still ongoing. From the horses mouth if you like.

Believe what you like mate, you're wrong.

The problem with your posts that they invariably involve sweeping generalisations, just like on another thread when you describe others en masse as fools. So you cannot be surprised that you are picked up on the fact that you seem to be tarring everyone with the same brush, even if, as you say, you did not intend it, and I am happy to accept that. You will also have to decide whether all your jibes are the actions of a decent person, which, predictably, you claim to be.
Because of my connections with the Police, I know that some officers' actions are, shall we say, less than professional, and they do get sacked, and quite rightly so, as they all know the consequences, should they stray from the straight and narrow. It does happen, of course it does, but as with any organisation, it tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Your initial post did not make that clear.You are obviously deeply affected by this, and you might like to reflect on whether you really should have got involved in the first place, if you are then going to be so touchy, claim superior knowledge, and then say "I can't go into details", once an opposing view comes up.

 

[LlcoolJ]

The problem with your posts that they invariably involve sweeping generalisations, just like on another thread when you describe others en masse as fools. So you cannot be surprised that you are picked up on the fact that you seem to be tarring everyone with the same brush, even if, as you say, you did not intend it, and I am happy to accept that. You will also have to decide whether all your jibes are the actions of a decent person, which, predictably, you claim to be.
Because of my connections with the Police, I know that some officers' actions are, shall we say, less than professional, and they do get sacked, and quite rightly so, as they all know the consequences, should they stray from the straight and narrow. It does happen, of course it does, but as with any organisation, it tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Your initial post did not make that clear.You are obviously deeply affected by this, and you might like to reflect on whether you really should have got involved in the first place, if you are then going to be so touchy, claim superior knowledge, and then say "I can't go into details", once an opposing view comes up.

With no respect whatsoever, you are an idiot.

 

[Hastings gull]

With no respect whatsoever, you are an idiot.

So speaks the decent person. You may or may not agree with what I write: that is your right, but I am not an idiot, any more than you are. But at least I can avoid insults when all else fails . .

 

[StillHateBellotti]

What you have to ask yourself is the following. Was this individual suspected or known to be in possession of a firearm. Yes. Was the victim surrendering to police. No. Was the victim behaving in a manner that could risk harm/injury to the public/police or themselves. This is the only question that is under scrutiny and the only people that know the answer are the officers that surrounded and shot Mark Duggan. From what I have seen he was shown to have one hand in his pocket and one hand drawing something from his coat. I don't believe it was a weapon as I think he threw it from the taxi before exiting the vehicle however if he was taking out a mobile phone or looked to be drawing a weapon the police had every right to open fire. These are split second decisions and if the officer had not taken the shot and Duggan had produced a weapon he could have fired and killed himself in an instant. If you don't get involved with gun crime you are highly unlikely to be shot by anyone let alone the police.

Totally agree.

Until you have worked in London, involved in jobs where shots have been fired, you do not realize how dangerous a place it is. Trident generally don't follow your everyday shoplifting heroin addict. There will always be different tactical options available but its what is in your mind at that split second that the shot is fired that matters, not now, not ten years afterwards, not 20 minutes before hand. Controversial yes but everybody thinks differently and is up to whichever officer shot him to justify why he shot, not the person next to him.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Family all somehow intertwined with crime, good riddance I say. As for the riots that followed, well that was more to do with how the country's being run, the shooting was just an excuse.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk