[Albion] Marc Cucurella *Signed For Chelsea 05/08/2022*

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Sorry but have i been Woooshed or is it April fools day?

No to both.

Football is now played based on possession. On keeping the ball. On playing out from the back. Defenders splitting at goal kicks. Goalkeepers being prized for their feet as much as their traditional goalkeeping? That's Guardiola's effect.

How Brighton play? That's Guardiola's effect. How many semi pro teams play? That's Guardiola's effect. How many Sunday league teams will try and play? That's Guardiola's effect. How kids teams are coached to play? That's Guardiola's effect.

Anti football? That term didn't exist until teams had to work out ways to stop Guardiola's teams/style of play.

If Poyet can walk league one playing that way why do you think Guardiola couldn't?

I'm not saying Guardiola is the greatest manager of all time but I don't believe there has been a more influential manager in the last 20 to 30 years.

By raw ingredients I assume you mean lorry loads of cash?

No. I mean:

Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets all came through the Barcelona youth system. In Messi he had one of the greatest players of all time and in Xavi and Iniesta two of the best players of their generation.

He also had Henry, Eto, Abidail and Yaya Toure already at the club.

He took those raw ingredients(and I accept 'raw' might be a stretch) and turned them into something incredible.

 

[usernamed]

Guardiola is an outstanding manager. I don't get how anyone can say he isn't.

How would he do in League 2? He'd win it. Maybe it'd take a couple of seasons but he'd walk it. Then he'd walk League 1. And then the championship.

He created one of the greatest club teams of all time. Of course he had the raw ingredients but he took them and football to new heights. He changed how football is played, coached and thought about.

“My requirements are simple: I need a team that has already been capable of winning their league regularly before I arrived, and the largest or second largest budget in the division.”

I’m not saying that he’s not a good coach, he absolutely is, but all of the teams that he’s coached have been in a position where winning the league was a realistic possibility at the point he took them over. Anyone remember Frank Rijkaard?

I’m not nearly as convinced as you are that without the raw talent already being in place or acquirable that he’d automatically saunter up the divisions.

Given a mid-table team with an average academy and scouting network, and little in the way of a transfer budget, I think he’d struggle.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Guardiola is an outstanding manager. I don't get how anyone can say he isn't.

How would he do in League 2? He'd win it. Maybe it'd take a couple of seasons but he'd walk it. Then he'd walk League 1. And then the championship.

He created one of the greatest club teams of all time. Of course he had the raw ingredients but he took them and football to new heights. He changed how football is played, coached and thought about.

Bang on.

Anyone who says otherwise is just a casual observer of Guardiola's career and European football. He is one of the greatest of all time, a game changer like Michels, Cruyff and Sachi before him.

 

[Left Footer]

Guardiola is an outstanding manager. I don't get how anyone can say he isn't.

How would he do in League 2? He'd win it. Maybe it'd take a couple of seasons but he'd walk it. Then he'd walk League 1. And then the championship.

He created one of the greatest club teams of all time. Of course he had the raw ingredients but he took them and football to new heights. He changed how football is played, coached and thought about.

So why can`t he win the Champions League with City?
Would your theory mean if he was our coach we would win the Prem or just Leagues 2,1 and Championship?

You`ll be telling me Bielsa is a genius next.

I don`t deny that he`s a good coach but even a good coach can`t turn shit into gold.

 

[SeagullinExile]

No to both.

Football is now played based on possession. On keeping the ball. On playing out from the back. Defenders splitting at goal kicks. Goalkeepers being prized for their feet as much as their traditional goalkeeping? That's Guardiola's effect.

How Brighton play? That's Guardiola's effect. How many semi pro teams play? That's Guardiola's effect. How many Sunday league teams will try and play? That's Guardiola's effect. How kids teams are coached to play? That's Guardiola's effect.

Anti football? That term didn't exist until teams had to work out ways to stop Guardiola's teams/style of play.

If Poyet can walk league one playing that way why do you think Guardiola couldn't?

I'm not saying Guardiola is the greatest manager of all time but I don't believe there has been a more influential manager in the last 20 to 30 years.



No. I mean:

Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Pedro, Busquets all came through the Barcelona youth system. In Messi he had one of the greatest players of all time and in Xavi and Iniesta two of the best players of their generation.

He also had Henry, Eto, Abidail and Yaya Toure already at the club.

He took those raw ingredients(and I accept 'raw' might be a stretch) and turned them into something incredible.

Bit like Sir Alex then? Guardiola only has to double his 25 titles to better him.

 

[Weststander]

Bang on.

Anyone who says otherwise is just a casual observer of Guardiola's career and European football. He is one of the greatest of all time, a game changer like Michels, Cruyff and Sachi before him.

The heritage line is Michels - Cruyff - Guardiola.

Cruyff changed everything at Barca as a player and later coach, the rest of the world followed.

[Apart from Mourinho, John Beck, Pulis].

 

[Audax]

Think folks are looking at Pep the wrong way around.

We're finding it difficult to prove he's a top quality manager because he's always had the budget and players at his disposal to forge a winning team. OK.

But let's look at it another way: would a bang average (or worse) manager have achieved what he's achieved with the same quality and budget at their disposal? Or would they have squandered it? I can think of plenty of managers who would not have achieved what Pep has achieved given the same opportunities.

So we can, at the very least, say that Pep is a quality manager who gets near to maximum results from the tools at his disposal, and does it consistently. If he was not up to scratch, he would have been found out by now IMO (regardless of the quality / budgets at his disposal).

Just look at the mess at Man U since Fergie left. The budget is there. Quality players have been there. And yet... I reckon Pep at Man U would have delivered titles and cups. I believe the same would be the case at Chelsea, Tottenham, and Arsenal as well. And he'd have done a a pretty similar job at Liverpool as Klopp has in terms of delivering success, if not better. And, I would argue, he would have delivered better results for a good many clubs in the Prem.

Pep is good, damn good. There's a reason we've never seen him manage lower leagues, and never will.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

“My requirements are simple: I need a team that has already been capable of winning their league regularly before I arrived, and the largest or second largest budget in the division.”

I’m not saying that he’s not a good coach, he absolutely is, but all of the teams that he’s coached have been in a position where winning the league was a realistic possibility at the point he took them over. Anyone remember Frank Rijkaard?

I’m not nearly as convinced as you are that without the raw talent already being in place or acquirable that he’d automatically saunter up the divisions.

Given a mid-table team with an average academy and scouting network, and little in the way of a transfer budget, I think he’d struggle.

You always need a relevant level of talent to be successful. I'm not and won't deny that.

If he started in league two with an average team and scouting etc I am confident that he would eventually walk the league because he would acquire the requisite talent that he needs to. Poyet did it with us in League 1. Are you saying Poyet is better? Guardiola knows exactly what type of player he needs and he'd find the ones of relevant ability to get out of league 2. Then he'd find the players necessary for league one and then the championship.

 

[Audax]

You always need a relevant level of talent to be successful. I'm not and won't deny that.

If he started in league two with an average team and scouting etc I am confident that he would eventually walk the league because he would acquire the requisite talent that he needs to. Poyet did it with us in League 1. Are you saying Poyet is better? Guardiola knows exactly what type of player he needs and he'd find the ones of relevant ability to get out of league 2. Then he'd find the players necessary for league one and then the championship.

I'd also argue that Pep has shown he has what it takes to get the best out of the team of players he has at his disposal. It's one thing having a collection of quality players, it's another getting them working together as a singular team as consistently and cohesively as Pep has done through his career. I reckon you drop him into a L2 team, and you'd see a) exactly what you mention, him going out and getting the right players to win L2 and b) getting more out of the players he retains, collectively.

Even now at Man C, I'm not convinced he's got the best squad in the Prem if you look at individual players. What he has got is a collection of players who contribute more to the whole than their individual worth - and that's a result of quality management and coaching.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

So why can`t he win the Champions League with City?
Would your theory mean if he was our coach we would win the Prem or just Leagues 2,1 and Championship?

You`ll be telling me Bielsa is a genius next.

I don`t deny that he`s a good coach but even a good coach can`t turn shit into gold.

The Champions league is a cup competition. It's open to the vagaries of a one off game. It's one of the reasons why Nottingham Forest have two European Cups to their names.

Would he win the premier league with Brighton? Unlikely I would have thought, not unless the stars aligned like they did for Leicester at any rate. How high could we go? Honestly? I think we would be in and around the champions league places if he was our manager.

What manager in the past 20-30 years has had such a profound effect on the way the game is perceived and played?

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Bit like Sir Alex then? Guardiola only has to double his 25 titles to better him.

Er, yes. Sir Alex was an outstanding manager too.

But just for fun...

Sir Alex had 50 trophies over a near 40 year career. Guardiola has 33 in 15 years. Including a club record 14 at Barcelona.

But yes, Sir Alex was an outstanding manager just as Guardiola is.

 

[Javeaseagull]

Can’t help thinking that Man City paid 100 million for Jack Grealish and won the league by one point.
One point! Nothing else, no cups just the league by one point. Sheesh.

 

[Swansman]

Me too, he has had a wealth of talent available in every managerial job he’s had so it’s a shame we’ll never find out just how good he really is. The fact he’s fecked up every single Champion’s League with City is a black mark imo.

It’s strange that he won it twice at Barca when he was not long into his managerial career. How much of it had to do with a club who knew how to win the CL rather than his ability, much like Real Madrid last year

Since 2001, Spanish teams have faced foreign opposition in 19 finals in CL/EL. The Spanish clubs won all 19, because until Covid it was the best league in the world.

Winning with Manchester City or Bayern Munich is more difficult, they're PL/Bundesliga were not on the same leve - especially the top clubs - l and it showed at the final stages of the top competitions

Probably starting to change now. Haaland is a historical signing for the Premier League - ten or even five years ago he would have gone to Real or Barca, no doubt. I think if Pep stay with City for another few years, they will likely win the CL. Managers have some importance of course, but money and quality is the key in the end. Guardiola would not win the PL with Brighton... but his 30+ titles indicates he is doing something right.

 

[Left Footer]

The Champions league is a cup competition. It's open to the vagaries of a one off game. It's one of the reasons why Nottingham Forest have two European Cups to their names.

Would he win the premier league with Brighton? Unlikely I would have thought, not unless the stars aligned like they did for Leicester at any rate. How high could we go? Honestly? I think we would be in and around the champions league places if he was our manager.

What manager in the past 20-30 years has had such a profound effect on the way the game is perceived and played?

Disagree about Forest, Clough and Taylor put a great team together which peaked in those three or four years but football has changed a hell of a lot since then and clubs with mega money now rule the roost.
Would City be where they are now without their money, not a chance, would Guardiola be their coach not a chance, he`d be at one of the other European Giants.

Jurgen Klopps had a massive impact with Dortmund then with Liverpool,i would suggest City`s squad is stronger but Liverpool continue to go toe to toe with them.

 

[AstroSloth]

Messi Iniesta Xavi Pedro Busquets Puyol Alves Piquet Mascerano Abidal Villa Valdes etc

The first three are some of the greatest ever players.

But they also weren't key players until Guardiola.

He bought through Iniesta and Busquets from his time at Barcelona B and trusted them in the senior side. Xavi wasn't as key to Barca before he took over the main side and started implementing his style of play.

 

[Weststander]

But they also weren't key players until Guardiola.

He bought through Iniesta and Busquets from his time at Barcelona B and trusted them in the senior side. Xavi wasn't as key to Barca before he took over the main side and started implementing his style of play.

I’ve not questioned Guardiola’s coaching abilities. Agreeing with [MENTION=9708]Farehamseagull[/MENTION] about the Michels-Cruyff-Guardiola line.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Disagree about Forest, Clough and Taylor put a great team together which peaked in those three or four years but football has changed a hell of a lot since then and clubs with mega money now rule the roost.
Would City be where they are now without their money, not a chance, would Guardiola be their coach not a chance, he`d be at one of the other European Giants.

Jurgen Klopps had a massive impact with Dortmund then with Liverpool,i would suggest City`s squad is stronger but Liverpool continue to go toe to toe with them.

Yet Forest only won the league once in those years.

As for your comment about money, I don't disagree.

It's debatable which club has the stronger squad( City did after all win the league without a striker) but again I don't disagree that Klopp is an excellent coach.

I'm not sure what points you are making that dispute the fact that Guardiola is an excellent manager who has had a greater impact on the game than any other manager in the past 20+ years.

 

[jessiejames]

Pep is a good manager i agree, but imo he is over rated. If i was the owner of shitty i would have expected at least 1 CL trophie and a few more domeztic with the money invested. Maybe the owner agrees if its true what people are saying that they need to sale before setting a bid for Cucu.

If he was as good as people think why does he not bring througj more of his academy players.
Playing football out from the back was not invented by Pep, its been around a long time.
Why does he want Cucu, because Potter has made him into an outstanding player? If Pep was that good he would have signed him before we did.

 

[jessiejames]

The Champions league is a cup competition. It's open to the vagaries of a one off game. It's one of the reasons why Nottingham Forest have two European Cups to their names.

Would he win the premier league with Brighton? Unlikely I would have thought, not unless the stars aligned like they did for Leicester at any rate. How high could we go? Honestly? I think we would be in and around the champions league places if he was our manager.

What manager in the past 20-30 years has had such a profound effect on the way the game is perceived and played?

The Champions league is easier to win now than the European cup, when a team that finishes 4th in its league qualifies for the Champions league it loses any respect. Thats living in Leeds fantasy land.

You said that if Pep was our manager we would be in the CL places, is that with the same squad as GP and same budget.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

See city value Ake at £50m, hopefully the penny will drop on Bluemoon soon


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