Malaysian airline crash

[Creaky]

Yes I got that totally wrong, just been looking it up, how about the rest of what I said in the post. I am not sure how good the break up of Yugoslavia is as an example of the best way to do anything.

I'm not claiming it is the best way of doing anything - All I'm trying to point out is that it is simplistic to compare Russian actions in Crimea with those in parts of the 'Old World'.

The whole area surrounding the Balkans has seen so much change in terms of governance over the last two hundred years that it is very difficult to say who has 'right' on their side. Maybe the will of the population should overide claims made by politicians

 

[Czechmate]

The trigger is being pressed by Russian Army soldiers who are in Ukraine without badges, just the same as Crimea, a load of Russian troops did not arrive to take over when it was declared Russian, they had been there all along just called something else

Your are right and they were called Ukrainians .

 

[dingodan]

Putin is saying this would not have happened if there was peace on 'our land'. Why did he do next to nothing to ensure there was peace?

He urged for a ceasefire with all other leaders, except Ukraine and the U.S. (June 30)

 

[martyn20]

I'm not claiming it is the best way of doing anything - All I'm trying to point out is that it is simplistic to compare Russian actions in Crimea with those in parts of the 'Old World'.

The whole area surrounding the Balkans has seen so much change in terms of governance over the last two hundred years that it is very difficult to say who has 'right' on their side. Maybe the will of the population should overide claims made by politicians

The will of the people is very important but so is the rule of law, Crimea is part of Ukraine

 

[martyn20]

Your are right and they were called Ukrainians .

Did Putin not say there were not Russian troops in Crimea during the uprising, something that disproved weeks later?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

He urged for a ceasefire with all other leaders, except Ukraine and the U.S. (June 30)

But did he support that? Words are easy. The sceptic in me feels that it's quite probable that he was supporting and funding them.

 

[Czechmate]

The telling fact here is Putin trying to excuse the conflict in Ukraine.

Who started it ? if I remember correctly there was a coup in Kiev. It doesn't matter how it occurred .

 

[Creaky]

The will of the people is very important but so is the rule of law, Crimea is part of Ukraine

And precedence has been set under the 'rule of law' giving Crimea the right to choose - a precedent that is being ignored by the West.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/22/us-serbia-kosovo-idUSTRE66L01720100722

"The court considers that general international law contains no applicable prohibition of declaration of independence . . . . Accordingly it concludes that the declaration of independence of the 17th of February 2008 did not violate general international law."

 

[Creaky]

In many ways it is ironic that he main reason that Kosovo hasn't been recognised as an independent state by the UN is because Russia would veto any attempt for them to do so.

 

[Czechmate]

Putin is saying this would not have happened if there was peace on 'our land'. Why did he do next to nothing to ensure there was peace?

I was waiting for you to join in , you're picture looks exactly like the prime minister of Ukraine , sorry I think you are biased

 

[martyn20]

And precedence has been set under the 'rule of law' giving Crimea the right to choose - a precedent that is being ignored by the West.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/22/us-serbia-kosovo-idUSTRE66L01720100722

"The court considers that general international law contains no applicable prohibition of declaration of independence . . . . Accordingly it concludes that the declaration of independence of the 17th of February 2008 did not violate general international law."

But that ruling does not have any sway over events in Crimea above being a guide. Where does it say a precedent has been set for future disputes?

 

[Czechmate]

Did Putin not say there were not Russian troops in Crimea during the uprising, something that disproved weeks later?

Didn't hear of it , only Nazi's that just a few weeks ago spread swastika's all over the Russian embassy

 

[dingodan]

But that ruling does not have any sway over events in Crimea above being a guide. Where does it say a precedent has been set for future disputes?

precedent
noun
noun: precedent; plural noun: precedents
ˈprɛsɪd(ə)nt/

1.
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I was waiting for you to join in , you're picture looks exactly like the prime minister of Ukraine , sorry I think you are biased

I'm not stating that as a fact, I don't trust Putin at all. It's very easy to suggest one thing and do another, particularly such a corrupt country.

 

[Czechmate]

Did Putin not say there were not Russian troops in Crimea during the uprising, something that disproved weeks later?

sorry I thought you meant kiev , my mistake . It was always agreed to have 25,000 Russian troops in Crimea as that was an agreement when Russia departed with Ukraine.

 

[martyn20]

precedent
noun
noun: precedent; plural noun: precedents
ˈprɛsɪd(ə)nt/

1.
an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.

So as a non-binding precedent it means nothing at all in this case?

 

[dingodan]

So as a non-binding precedent it means nothing at all in this case?

I don't think you understand the word "precedent".

 

[martyn20]

sorry I thought you meant kiev , my mistake . It was always agreed to have 25,000 Russian troops in Crimea as that was an agreement when Russia departed with Ukraine.

They were in the ports for security, the fighting happened on the streets, they broke into government buildings well outside the fences of the ports

 

[Czechmate]

I'm not stating that as a fact, I don't trust Putin at all. It's very easy to suggest one thing and do another, particularly such a corrupt country.

I don't trust him either for the records but I don't trust Obama more , I am just trying to put across a level opinion . I have been to Ukraine 10 times now and know what the people think .

 

[martyn20]

I don't think you understand the word "precedent".

Please help me by explaining it sir and how the Kosovo ruling effects the situation in Crimea