You're basing the voters opinions / appetite on the EU on an NSC poll ??
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Live tonight @ 7pm on youtube. Pro - Europe Nick Clegg V's Anti - Brussels Nigel Farage.
- Thread starter Footsoldier
- Start date
You're basing the voters opinions / appetite on the EU on an NSC poll ??
Tricky Dicky
New member
I would hardly call him a "great" politician, but then I doubt I wouldn't use that description for any living politician. What he does is make huge emotive statements that have a modicum of truth behind them, but doesn't back them up with any substance or debate the detail. The trouble with debates like the one last night, it was never going to change the mind of anyone from the opinion they started with. I thought it was pretty much a no-score draw, really, with Nige looking very sweaty towards the end. The jibe about "the EU with blood on their hands over Ukraine was rather uncalled for I felt.
stripeyshark
All-Time Best Defence
- Dec 20, 2011
- 2,294
Clegg got shown up tonight for the liar and deceiver that he is. Good stuff.
stripeyshark
All-Time Best Defence
- Dec 20, 2011
- 2,294
Very called for and true IMO.
East Preston Gull
New member
This. The E.U has bribed favourable, rather wealthy pro E.U ukrainians to join its club of corruption. Putin has taken action in securing it's bases in Crimea amidst the growing land control of the European project. They have messed up and now expect Britain and America to make pointless threats of meaningless sanctions. On this issue, Farage is correct. The EU, if not yet, will have ukrainians blood on its grubby little hands.
Agreed to an extent. The Ukrainians toppled their leader because the EU courted them. That's not to support either the previous leader nor the Russian invasion. The EU doesn't have the guts to now solve the issue. Strange, when Iraq invaded Kuwait the Western armies couldn't wait to get there - Russia invades Ukraine and we impose pointless sanctions !
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
What exactly are the Ukranians looking for? Is it membership of the EU? Well that's going to take a very long time if they are. I just feel they have made their situation worse not better with the help of the EU, and your right now it looks the EU doesn't know what to do next. Clegg was talking about this last week on the radio, with many people phoning up who where apposed to this whole idea, but he said it our duty as Europeans to help them out, why?
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Not purely, and not even primarily. If you have a look at opinion polls that ask voters to rank issues in order of priority, the issue of the EU rarely features. The NSC poll is merely confirming this, or providing further confirmation to this.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I don't know what you're all going on about on this page about Ukraine.
What happened in Ukraine in Jan/Feb of this year was a widespread popular revolution, deposing one of Putin's cronies. This follows on from the 'Orange' revolution of last decade alongside several other popular activities, and much longer historical relational problems between Russia and the Ukraine.
The role of the EU in all this is limited. The Ukrainians, however, might turn to the EU as they feel it's the only form of protection they can receive from Putin's encroaches. But they are far more anti-Russia, anti-Putin, or anti-Putin-cronies, than they are pro-EU. The EU haven't been sticking their oar into the Ukrainian situation precisely because they don't engage in such activity -- espionage, surveillance, nurturing contacts, etc -- unlike the US especially, but also the UK and other nation states. Of course this doesn't fit into the convenient UKip narrative that the EU is a super-state.
For Farage to try to implicate the EU with Ukraine proves just how desperate he is, and how poor his grasp of international relations are.
What happened in Ukraine in Jan/Feb of this year was a widespread popular revolution, deposing one of Putin's cronies. This follows on from the 'Orange' revolution of last decade alongside several other popular activities, and much longer historical relational problems between Russia and the Ukraine.
The role of the EU in all this is limited. The Ukrainians, however, might turn to the EU as they feel it's the only form of protection they can receive from Putin's encroaches. But they are far more anti-Russia, anti-Putin, or anti-Putin-cronies, than they are pro-EU. The EU haven't been sticking their oar into the Ukrainian situation precisely because they don't engage in such activity -- espionage, surveillance, nurturing contacts, etc -- unlike the US especially, but also the UK and other nation states. Of course this doesn't fit into the convenient UKip narrative that the EU is a super-state.
For Farage to try to implicate the EU with Ukraine proves just how desperate he is, and how poor his grasp of international relations are.
Actually the EU offered the Ukraine shed loads of money to sign a trade deal. So yes, the EU have been involved in the events.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Are you saying that this prompted the uprising and revolution? And do you have a link to this claim that you're making?
It assisted in the uprising. If the Russian deal was the only one on the table then the uprising may well have not happened. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26531721
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Thanks for the link. You are aware that the offer was made two months AFTER the uprising, which would render your argument problematic.
Fair point but according to news reports the EU made offers prior to the one I quote.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
The questions, then, would be when and to who. If it was after the uprising, then it didn't affect it; if it was before, the EU don't tend to go around making offers to groups that might overthrow the extant regime, whatever Farage and those in the media that back him and his message tell you.
Ali_rrr
Well-known member
Allow me to rephrase myself then, I would say he is a good politician. I believe it's the same with Alex Sammond. Both of them are obviously good at what they do as they're both getting high numbers of support at moment. In my generation, there hasn't been really any great politicians minus Tony Blair. (forgetting Iraq)