'Leadership' debate

[NooBHA]

When Corbyn hit the back of the net with that ''food bank'' - I was out of my seat and dancing round my terrace

 

[Sussex Nomad]

When Corbyn hit the back of the net with that ''food bank'' - I was out of my seat and dancing round my terrace

But will the food bank have the same restrictions as other high street banks?

 

[Rod Marsh]

When Corbyn hit the back of the net with that ''food bank'' - I was out of my seat and dancing round my terrace

Does anyone know someone that uses a food bank? I don't even know where my local one is, if there is one.

 

[Buzzer]

The audience was specially selected by a polling company to be 'representative' of the country, in terms of:
-- political party support, and undecided voters
-- support for/against Brexit
Given that, why are you so convinced that the audience was largely Momentum/Corbyn cheerleaders?

Even the editor of the New Statesman thought it was biased. Bloody Red Tory/Blue Labour...whatever you crazy cats call anyone who isn't politically pure of thought and deed.

[tweet]870000749660557312[/tweet]

 

[Soulman]

When Corbyn hit the back of the net with that ''food bank'' - I was out of my seat and dancing round my terrace

Food banks, a new thing are they.

" The trust was founded in 1997 by two former UN workers, Paddy and Carol Henderson, and was originally conceived to support street children in Bulgaria. Then, in 2000, Paddy received a call from a mother in Salisbury whose children were going hungry. Her story inspired him to open his first food bank in the city, which he ran from home. In 2004, he decided to expand the model. “The simple phrase that stuck with us was that ‘if Salisbury needs a food bank, every town should have one’,” says Chris Mould, chairman of the Trussell Trust, who has worked with the organisation since 2003.

In recent years both the number of food banks and the numbers of people who use them have risen exponentially. Between April 2008 and March 2009 Trussell Trust food banks handed out 25,899 parcels. In the corresponding period in 2010-11, covering the time of the last general election, it gave out 128,697. By last financial year (2013-14), that figure had grown nearly eightfold to almost a million parcels. This year the figure is likely to be higher still: 492,741 parcels were given out between April and September 2014, an increase of 38 per cent over the same period in 2013.

This is not the full picture. The Trussell Trust’s 430 or so food banks are believed to account for roughly half the country’s network, but there is no complete database of the charities giving out emergency food aid. The lack of data is partly due to the government’s apparent lack of curiosity about how many people are falling through its welfare net. “The government does not monitor the use of food banks and has no plans to do so,” the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) confirmed in response to a Freedom of Information request in December 2013. In March, the department confirmed that this remains its position."

 

[Buzzer]

When Corbyn hit the back of the net with that ''food bank'' - I was out of my seat and dancing round my terrace

You know when Reading fans were on the pitch celebrating a few years ago? That's you, that is. This picture is of you goading the Tories.

 

[Honky Tonx]

All shouting each other down and not giving each other a chance to answer the questions put to them. They behaved like a bunch of squabbling School Children. What is needed is a head to head Smith and Jones style discussion between May and Corbyn.

 

[Deano's Invisible Pants]

There are other explanations, which I don't need to offer, but will do if you can explain what evidence you have for your position. The BBC is publicly funded and made a clear claim that the audience is/was 'representative'. I trust the BBC on this, you quite clearly don't (and probably have a problem with trust in general), but I'm more interested in hearing why you don't trust the BBC.

I'm not sure why you have leapt to the assumption that I don't trust the BBC, or that I have 'a problem with trust in general'. I don't doubt that the BBC intended it to be a balanced audience and, generally, I think their coverage of politics is among the best - if not the best. However, they, or rather their contractor, got it wrong last night. They are not infallible.

Ultimately, the only thing the recruitment company has to go on is STATED political leaning / voting intention and STATED voting record. There is no means of validating stated voting record against actual voting record. You could possibly do the due diligence on someone's social media accounts to check that their political alignment is not contrary to what they have claimed - but this is unlikely to be a commercially viable / practical option. Put simply, if an organised group of people set out to fool the recruitment company, they can do so (and did last night).

 

[Deano's Invisible Pants]

Or perhaps it is because during this whole Election campaign the Conservative party has had nothing to say except Teresa May saying ''Vote for me because Jeremy Corbyn is rubbish''

Tonight was no different. The same negative politics and nothing positive about how to improve peoples lives. All they talked about was how difficult the future will be and nothing about easing those difficulties. That's why no one in the room had anything to cheer when they spoke.

The part which bugs me about Teresa may not attending is not the fact that she didn't because these debates don't sway enough people to alter the course of the eventual winners. It's the fact that no one has once openly challenged her reason for not attending.

She states that she would rather be out speaking to voters on the doorstep but she is not on people's doorsteps at 8pm at night. Someone really needs to say to her - ''Why can't you do both'' ?

I agree that May has been poorly advised. Like it or not, we live in a presidential age and there is now an expectation that PMs and aspiring PM's participate in these debates - as flawed as they sometimes are. She was wrong footed by Corbyn's late decision to attend and was left with the conundrum of, 'do I risk looking weak by doing (another) u-turn and being driven by Corbyn's agenda', or 'Will I look like a coward by not attending' - I think she was damned either way. It was a master-stroke by Corbyn's advisers.

I also agree that she has run a poor campaign, lacking a positive long term vision. It is, of course, a very unusual time for the country. Yes, elections have to be about how to improve people's lives, but the elephant in the room is Brexit. Whether you think it was the right or wrong decision, it's going to happen and everything now hinges on the next PM's ability to secure the best terms. I think May sees it like this - let the big vision wait until we've got through this period - but people want to be reassured about their long term prospects, not just that she is going to be a better PM than Jeremy.

Anyway, back to the original thread. I don't think the audience reaction was a normal one. Big clap for a stronger speaker, a more muted reaction to a weaker one - that's fine and sounds 'normal'. Whoops of positivity for one, heckling (then silence) for another, points to a problem with the recruitment.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You know when Reading fans were on the pitch celebrating a few years ago? That's you, that is. This picture is of you goading the Tories.

It's more like being 4-0 down at HT and you've scored twice early in the 2nd half to make it 4-2, still 2 goals behind, but the oppositions o.g. for the 2nd has at least made the rest of the game interesting.

 

[DataPoint]

Food banks, a new thing are they.

" The trust was founded in 1997 by two former UN workers, Paddy and Carol Henderson, and was originally conceived to support street children in Bulgaria. Then, in 2000, Paddy received a call from a mother in Salisbury whose children were going hungry. Her story inspired him to open his first food bank in the city, which he ran from home. In 2004, he decided to expand the model. “The simple phrase that stuck with us was that ‘if Salisbury needs a food bank, every town should have one’,” says Chris Mould, chairman of the Trussell Trust, who has worked with the organisation since 2003.

In recent years both the number of food banks and the numbers of people who use them have risen exponentially. Between April 2008 and March 2009 Trussell Trust food banks handed out 25,899 parcels. In the corresponding period in 2010-11, covering the time of the last general election, it gave out 128,697. By last financial year (2013-14), that figure had grown nearly eightfold to almost a million parcels. This year the figure is likely to be higher still: 492,741 parcels were given out between April and September 2014, an increase of 38 per cent over the same period in 2013.

This is not the full picture. The Trussell Trust’s 430 or so food banks are believed to account for roughly half the country’s network, but there is no complete database of the charities giving out emergency food aid. The lack of data is partly due to the government’s apparent lack of curiosity about how many people are falling through its welfare net. “The government does not monitor the use of food banks and has no plans to do so,” the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) confirmed in response to a Freedom of Information request in December 2013. In March, the department confirmed that this remains its position."

As always, we're way behind the Germans!

http://www.dw.com/en/germanys-food-pantries-struggle-to-meet-rising-demand/a-37148492

 

[Medwayseagull]

You know when Reading fans were on the pitch celebrating a few years ago? That's you, that is. This picture is of you goading the Tories.

And that is Theresa May in the orange jacket looking clueless about what to do.

 

[Simster]

PM's of long standing governments never do. They would spend the whole time defending a real record warts and all, whereas someone like Lucas or Farron would be on a win-win: slagging off that real record by a Tory or Labour PM, whilst promising the earth. Knowing full well that they well never have to fulfil their shopping list.

Not quite true. Farron's party were running the country two terms ago. And in a recent debate, Vince Cable (to his immense credit) was apologetic and honest about the reasons behind their own decision to reverse their pledge on university tuition fees.

Regardless of my own political persuasion, I really do wish there was a lot more of this sort of thing. I'd have FAR more respect for the current mob if they spent time defending their own policy decisions and u turns instead of this tiresome rhetoric that Corbyn is dangerous and that we simply MUST deliver a Tory landslide because if not the country is going to the dogs.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Ultimately, the only thing the recruitment company has to go on is STATED political leaning / voting intention and STATED voting record. There is no means of validating stated voting record against actual voting record. You could possibly do the due diligence on someone's social media accounts to check that their political alignment is not contrary to what they have claimed - but this is unlikely to be a commercially viable / practical option. Put simply, if an organised group of people set out to fool the recruitment company, they can do so (and did last night).

This is true. I've been recruited by independent market researchers who are supposed to get a specific set of people for whoever wants to run a particular focus group. I was in the audience for one of the debate years ago - easy money and quite enjoyable.

As recruiting people is extremely hard work, it's much easier to recruit people you know rather than the rigamorale of finding who you need by chance. The conversation usually goes something like this :

'What age are you?
'I'm 43'
'Do you mind saying you are 45?, I'm short in that range'
'No problem'
'Also, I'm short of single men, so can you lose the wedding ring for the night'
'Ok, don't tell the wife'
(Fake laugh) 'Have you worked for the government in the last 5 years?
'No but I have worked on a government contract'
'OK, Dont mention that So, voting intentions. Who are you voting for?
'Probably Lib Dem'
'I'll put you down as undecided'

By the end of it you forget who you are.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I'd have FAR more respect for the current mob if they spent time defending their own policy decisions and u turns instead of this tiresome rhetoric that Corbyn is dangerous and that we simply MUST deliver a Tory landslide because if not the country is going to the dogs.

That's not their tactics though. Their tactics are to run a negative campaign. Why? Because it works.

Brexit is a good example of this; when the Tories took on Brown, they convinced the electorate that Labour had bankrupted the country. They didn't get enough for a majority but in the last election, the gift of Ed Milliband handed them a win on a plate. They convinced the electorate Ed was a buffoon (he helped as much as he could) and turned Labour over with ease.

If you want positive messages, you'll need to dig deeper. If you can get a face to face conversation with a sensible Tory like Simon Kirby (pro BML2, Anti Fox hunting) you may find that some of their policies are appealing but as for their campaign overall, negative campaigning works because it focuses on fear and anger. Folk get defensive and feel they want to protect their family and friends and then vote Tory. This tactic will win again although the 50+ majority is probably reliant on an almighty Corbyn gaff with the press getting behind it 100%.

 

[franks brother]

Missing in Action

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Surf's Up]

What part of "even the BBC admit it's hard to police as people fib when applying for tickets" don't you get?

No-one is saying that the BBC clearly tried to create a left-wing bias, but if left-winger Reaminers said that in fact they were Tory leading Brexiters, how can the BBC know?

If it was balanced, then you would naturally expect more disdain towards Corbyn and more support for Rudd. But, due to the usual left-wing blinkers, you can't even see the obvious.

The left wing/Momentum are incredibly well organised. You only have to look at the numbers following JC around the country and the fact that wherever May goes is always publicised and hence there is always a counter demonstration of Corbynistas (JC keeps his speaking engagements secret, restricted to those who are knownto be supporters hence no counter-demo, not that it is in the Tory psyche to demonstrate). It is comfortably within their skill set to manipulate the BBC processes and con them into thinking they have dug up a "representative" audience whereas in reality the audience is choc full of Corbynistas. Its they way they work.

 

[The Large One]

So Jeremy Corbyn, Caroline Lucas et al make the most pertinent, interesting points, Amber Rudd and Paul Nuttall say nothing of interest, and the audience react appropriately, at which point people grizzle about a 'left-wing audience', which is clearly a load of old bollocks. Pitiful.

 

[The Large One]

The left wing/Momentum are incredibly well organised. You only have to look at the numbers following JC around the country and the fact that wherever May goes is always publicised and hence there is always a counter demonstration of Corbynistas (JC keeps his speaking engagements secret, restricted to those who are knownto be supporters hence no counter-demo, not that it is in the Tory psyche to demonstrate). It is comfortably within their skill set to manipulate the BBC processes and con them into thinking they have dug up a "representative" audience whereas in reality the audience is choc full of Corbynistas. Its they way they work.

What a load of embarrassing old twaddle. Pure fantasy.

Do you honestly think he can keep his appearance on the show secret enough for the Momentum wing to stuff the BBC audience without one single political commentator getting a whiff of that story? Or was it the oh-so Corbyn-friendly BBC shovelling Momentum members in without them batting an eyelid? Poor tin hat conspiracy theory there.

And what's this 'it's how they work' stuff? What does that even mean? Are you an active member of Momentum and know exactly what they do on a day to day basis - or are you making it up?

It evidently hasn't occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, he won over the audience. No, I guess it hasn't. Sorry, carry on.

 

[NooBHA]

Food banks, a new thing are they.

" The trust was founded in 1997 by two former UN workers, Paddy and Carol Henderson, and was originally conceived to support street children in Bulgaria. Then, in 2000, Paddy received a call from a mother in Salisbury whose children were going hungry. Her story inspired him to open his first food bank in the city, which he ran from home. In 2004, he decided to expand the model. “The simple phrase that stuck with us was that ‘if Salisbury needs a food bank, every town should have one’,” says Chris Mould, chairman of the Trussell Trust, who has worked with the organisation since 2003.

In recent years both the number of food banks and the numbers of people who use them have risen exponentially. Between April 2008 and March 2009 Trussell Trust food banks handed out 25,899 parcels. In the corresponding period in 2010-11, covering the time of the last general election, it gave out 128,697. By last financial year (2013-14), that figure had grown nearly eightfold to almost a million parcels. This year the figure is likely to be higher still: 492,741 parcels were given out between April and September 2014, an increase of 38 per cent over the same period in 2013.

This is not the full picture. The Trussell Trust’s 430 or so food banks are believed to account for roughly half the country’s network, but there is no complete database of the charities giving out emergency food aid. The lack of data is partly due to the government’s apparent lack of curiosity about how many people are falling through its welfare net. “The government does not monitor the use of food banks and has no plans to do so,” the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) confirmed in response to a Freedom of Information request in December 2013. In March, the department confirmed that this remains its position."

Whats the reason for this post ?

My post was a satirical reply linking football with politics as others were doing.

You obviously don't follow my posts on Corbyn. I am a fan of his. He scored a ''beauty'' when he threw the fact that Tories don't know anything about or associate themselves with the people who go to food banks.

That's why I made the statement of getting out my seat and cheered when Jeremy threw that in their faces last night. My postal vote went in the post today and there is no one I would ever dream of voting for in this Election is ''Team Corbyn''