Ken Livingstone Suspended

[looney]

Yeah, the source of the image is of no consequence because the originator is Jewish.
Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

For three decades, Norman Finkelstein has been the American Jewish community’s problem-child—denounced as a hysteric, a marginal ideologue, and a self-hating Jew. Selfless and vain, highly emotional—sometimes hysterical—in tone yet relentlessly logical in his arguments, he is now an academic with a doctorate from Princeton whose attacks on “the Holocaust Industry” and public cheerleading for Hezbollah have rendered him so toxic that he can’t obtain even the lowliest adjunct teaching position at any community college in America.


http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/102054/qa-norman-finkelstein

 

[looney]

I think you will find they understand the difference between anti zionism, and anti semitism. Dont worry.

Its sad you think the difference is significant.

 

[daveinprague]

Its sad you think the difference is significant.

Its sad that you dont.

 

[daveinprague]

For three decades, Norman Finkelstein has been the American Jewish community’s problem-child—denounced as a hysteric, a marginal ideologue, and a self-hating Jew. Selfless and vain, highly emotional—sometimes hysterical—in tone yet relentlessly logical in his arguments, he is now an academic with a doctorate from Princeton whose attacks on “the Holocaust Industry” and public cheerleading for Hezbollah have rendered him so toxic that he can’t obtain even the lowliest adjunct teaching position at any community college in America.


http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/102054/qa-norman-finkelstein

A Jew who stands against Zionism publicly and denounces the State of Israel actions in Palestine makes him toxic in the USA school system?. You shock me.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Its sad you think the difference is significant.

Anti-Semitism is "hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people".
Zionism refers to the movement to create a Jewish state in the Middle East, corresponding to the historic land of Israel - anti-Zionism opposes that.
But some say "Zionist" can be used as a coded attack on Jews, while others say the Israeli government and its supporters are deliberately confusing anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism to avoid criticism.

 

[mona]

I think you will find they understand the difference between anti zionism, and anti semitism. Dont worry.

I wasn't aiming my comment at you particularly. But I would caution people on this issue. I disagree with plenty of things about Israel. It's a hell of a lot better than other Middle eastern states, however, in many aspects.

If Israel didn't exist, the whole area would still be unstable. Perhaps the collapse of the Ottoman Empire destroyed the chances of a multi-religion Middle east continuing to co-exist.

I'm genuinely not interested in party politics but I think Livingstone has been crass. Reading some of his supporters' comments makes me feel that some left wing people have problems with this subject.

No idea but I suspect both our Israeli players could be from families that have lived in Israel/Palestine since way back when. I think this topic should be considered very carefully in the light of the current situation.

 

[looney]

Its sad that you dont.

It isn't

 

[looney]

A Jew who stands against Zionism publicly and denounces the State of Israel actions in Palestine makes him toxic in the USA school system?. You shock me.

Anyone can find an outlier on any issue, in other words he is not representative and why people feel they can prove anything by pulling this kind of stunt baffles me.It is also moving away from why the MP was suspended.

 

[looney]

Anti-Semitism is "hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people".
Zionism refers to the movement to create a Jewish state in the Middle East, corresponding to the historic land of Israel - anti-Zionism opposes that.
But some say "Zionist" can be used as a coded attack on Jews, while others say the Israeli government and its supporters are deliberately confusing anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism to avoid criticism.

Its been created so now what? you will do what and how? A campaign to destroy a nation?

 

[Buzzer]

She retweeted something from a Jewish writers blog.

You keep saying this. Where did you get that information from because I think you're completely wrong. Reports from the Jewish Chronicle say she re-tweeted posts from a blog called 'Walk Together'

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/157363/labour-mp-naz-shah-backed-plan-relocate-israelis-america

and although the blog entry has been deleted, the blog is still up and appears to be written by a Bradford Labour councillor, Mohammed Shabbir who works for Naz Shah. http://cllrshabbir.blogspot.co.uk/ Now, I could be wrong but he doesn't sound very Jewish. The Labour Party have suspended him too. He does like to use the word 'Zio' in a lot of tweets.

All this is by the by. You can't see why suggesting forcible removal of Jews from a country is offensive nor using inflammatory references to Hitler when describing Israeli action but fortunately Naz Shah can and has apologised sincerely for that.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Its been created so now what? you will do what and how? A campaign to destroy a nation?

there is a significant diference

 

[Hampster Gull]

Its been created so now what? you will do what and how? A campaign to destroy a nation?

duplicate!!!

 

[Hampster Gull]

Its been created so now what? you will do what and how? A campaign to destroy a nation?

duplicate!

 

[daveinprague]

You keep saying this. Where did you get that information from because I think you're completely wrong. Reports from the Jewish Chronicle say she re-tweeted posts from a blog called 'Walk Together'

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/157363/labour-mp-naz-shah-backed-plan-relocate-israelis-america

and although the blog entry has been deleted, the blog is still up and appears to be written by a Bradford Labour councillor, Mohammed Shabbir who works for Naz Shah. http://cllrshabbir.blogspot.co.uk/ Now, I could be wrong but he doesn't sound very Jewish. The Labour Party have suspended him too. He does like to use the word 'Zio' in a lot of tweets.

All this is by the by. You can't see why suggesting forcible removal of Jews from a country is offensive nor using inflammatory references to Hitler when describing Israeli action but fortunately Naz Shah can and has apologised sincerely for that.

Got it from here. It doesnt mention forcible removal.

She has apologised for reposting it, and saying problem solved as far as I can make out.

http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/08/04/solution-for-israel-palestine-conflict‏/

 

[Hampster Gull]

Its been created so now what? you will do what and how? A campaign to destroy a nation?

edit - duplicate

 

[8ace]

He's a sniveling taig scumbag - always has been.
#TeamJewboy

 

[Buzzer]

Got it from here. It doesnt mention forcible removal.

Ah, cheers. She's also re-tweeted from Cllr Shabbir's blog too. Re. the 'removal' It would have to be forcible removal though:

"I've got a solution. We move you to the US. problem solved"
"We're not going"
"Oh..."

She has apologised for reposting it, and saying problem solved as far as I can make out.

So why are you still trying to argue that what she did was no big deal? Shah thinks it was, she apologised and promised to learn from it. Surely she's in a better position to judge than you are?

 

[daveinprague]

Ah, cheers. She's also re-tweeted from Cllr Shabbir's blog too. Re. the 'removal' It would have to be forcible removal though:

"I've got a solution. We move you to the US. problem solved"
"We're not going"
"Oh..."



So why are you still trying to argue that what she did was no big deal? Shah thinks it was, she apologised and promised to learn from it. Surely she's in a better position to judge than you are?

Because, I dont think it was a big deal. Really. Maybe she did out of poitical expediency I guess, or told to. I dont know, but it does seem to me to be a bit of a nothing.

 

[Buzzer]

Just to give Norman Finkelstein some context, he's a life-long atheist, one-time Maoist, still a hardline communist and a big fan of Hamas and Hezbollah. Is he anti-Semitic though? I don't know, he's very clever but he has made lots of statements that have made even moderates accuse him of being anti-Semitic. It is possible to be of Jewish origin and still be anti-Semitic and people like Gilad Atzmon, the jazz player prove that. He's a man so toxic that even the SWP won't touch him with a barge pole.

 

[Buzzer]

Because, I dont think it was a big deal. Really. Maybe she did out of poitical expediency I guess, or told to. I dont know, but it does seem to me to be a bit of a nothing.

The easiest way would be to turn it around for a minute. Say that I thought that there's big issues between Muslims and people of a Judeo-Christian background in the UK. And say I thought that the problems are getting bigger and bigger with traditional communities being transplanted and exclusively Muslim communities replacing them. Say I fear Islamic rule in a country that I regard as my own and that I think Islam is incompatible with a liberal Western lifestyle. This is all hypothetical of course.

My hypothetical solution is to 'relocate' all Muslims out of Britain to Saudi Arabia. There's plenty of room in those deserts, the Saudis have plenty of money, they will be safe in a community that broadly shares their religious beliefs, the relocation costs could easily be met by not having to spend money on security risks from UK Muslims. And if they don't like Saudi Arabia, we can find somewhere else for them to live. Do you think this idea is no big deal? Do you think UK Muslims and their relatives overseas think it's no big deal?

Of course it bloody is. It's made all that much bigger because in living memory, millions of Jews have already been 'relocated' because they're a problem to some.