[Politics] Johnson blames energy price rises on Putin

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And claims the price we pay for our energy bills should be considered in the context of the price the Ukrainians are paying in blood.

This man has no shame. And the BBC has not said a word of 'hang on a minute, mate....'

:facepalm

 

[Comrade Sam]

So not the repulsive greed of the fossil fuel companies as their profits shoot ever skyward? Or a government that gives these scumbags public money, whilst refusing to tax them? Or a regulator that has given them the freedom to steal?

 

[Comrade Sam]

Even the hand outs we were given to help deal with rising prices are a scam. Just took our money as tax and gave it to us to hand over. We really are a money laundering, tax haven for the super rich.
STRIKE!!!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So not the repulsive greed of the fossil fuel companies as their profits shoot ever skyward? Or a government that gives these scumbags public money, whilst refusing to tax them? Or a regulator that has given them the freedom to steal?

Ukrainian spokesperson just said we should seize all Russian money stashed in UK banks and use this to subsidize the fuel charges.

She's correct.

But that would mean Johnson upsetting people who have allegedly paid for some of his jollies (and who knows what else?).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Even the hand outs we were given to help deal with rising prices are a scam. Just took our money as tax and gave it to us to hand over. We really are a money laundering, tax haven for the super rich.
STRIKE!!!

We have another 2 years of this shit shower in charge so a structured opposition and action are needed. It is too late to sit back and wait and hope.

I have no idea how to mobilize this though. Having lots of wildfire striking won't work, not with the establishment here, a cowed BBC, and a nation of many million Johnson supporters (still).

 

[Weststander]

Putin has blamed the EU/western Europe throughout.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russian-gas-goes-east-via-yamal-europe-pipeline-fourth-day-2021-12-24/

Whilst global markets, far more powerful than little old UK, tell THE story.



Then it boils down to what individual governments will do this autumn/winter to help consumers and businesses, through borrowing. We’ll find out in early Sept if Truss gets it, what tangibly will be done to help on top of the £400 (and £650 for the poor).

If effectively Jack Sh@t, it’ll be the final nails in the coffin for a Tory government. She couldn’t be that thick could she.

 

[Blue3]

Johnson was is and always will be Tory scum as are Truss and Sunak the whole government is riddled with filth the sooner people employed by others realise that all the individuals associated with this government are not interested in yours or my well-being we are just plebs in their eyes

 

[beorhthelm]

other causes of prices rising?

Russia has more maintenance work on the Nord Stream pipeline shutting it down. also, power prices hit €1000 yesturday. seems a pretty common view of the cause and effect.
https://www.france24.com/en/economy...-hit-record-high-as-supply-cuts-begin-to-bite

 

[Weststander]

other causes of prices rising?

Russia has more maintenance work on the Nord Stream pipeline shutting it down. also, power prices hit €1000 yesturday. seems a pretty common view of the cause and effect.
https://www.france24.com/en/economy...-hit-record-high-as-supply-cuts-begin-to-bite

Independent experts on R4, LBC throughout and still now blame Putin for this. As vengeance for Europe siding with Ukraine, plus he misjudged in thinking that Germany/Italy would cave in due to their dependence.

Non-Tory C4 give this up to date explanation, with some nuance about Ofgem.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-why-are-energy-bills-going-up

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

And claims the price we pay for our energy bills should be considered in the context of the price the Ukrainians are paying in blood.

This man has no shame. And the BBC has not said a word of 'hang on a minute, mate....'

:facepalm

Seems to be the line for a few leaders.

Last Friday he told the French in Churchillian tones to accept that rising energy and food bills were the ‘price of liberty’, and he returned to the theme yesterday when he addressed his ministers. ‘Our system based on freedom in which we have become used to living, sometimes when we need to defend it, it can entail making sacrifices,’ said Macron. ‘This overview that I’m giving — the end of abundance, the end of insouciance, the end of assumptions — it’s ultimately a tipping point that we are going through.’

Easy out for them to blame it all on Russia, costs/inflation were going up before the invasion.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And claims the price we pay for our energy bills should be considered in the context of the price the Ukrainians are paying in blood.

This man has no shame. And the BBC has not said a word of 'hang on a minute, mate....'

:facepalm

Harry, he is correct. I’m sorry. What else do you think is driving gas, oil and power markets higher ? Putin has toyed with the markets for a couple of years, particularly with his cat and mouse games with the German Green Party over their continued refusal to allow the Nordstream 2 pipeline. We are now putting our money where our mouths are over support for Ukraine. That’s just a fact. Now there are very good arguments that someone else should pay eg the energy producers. I have a lot of sympathy for that argument but someone will pay for Putin’s actions to reduce both supply and security of supply. Putin pounced when he saw vulnerability. He saw us trying to reduce our reliance on fossil fuel via the energy transition. We were closing coal fired power stations, not renewing nuclear supply and therefore even more reliant on Russia. There was also surging demand post Covid and an infrastructure that was struggling to ramp up supply. This is generally accepted pretty much everywhere so to create a story out of what you say Johnson said is surprising.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Seems to be the line for a few leaders.

Last Friday he told the French in Churchillian tones to accept that rising energy and food bills were the ‘price of liberty’, and he returned to the theme yesterday when he addressed his ministers. ‘Our system based on freedom in which we have become used to living, sometimes when we need to defend it, it can entail making sacrifices,’ said Macron. ‘This overview that I’m giving — the end of abundance, the end of insouciance, the end of assumptions — it’s ultimately a tipping point that we are going through.’

Easy out for them to blame it all on Russia, costs/inflation were going up before the invasion.

Yes, because of supply chain problems as we emerged from Covid. Again, well understood by everyone and particularly by Putin. Macron is also correct. Perhaps I’m just banging myself against the brick wall of the latest internet conspiracy theory. Probably best not to get involved.

 

[cjd]

Hmmmmm.... I think what a lot of people, including myself, want to know is;


Is it possible to give a reasonably accurate account of how much of the price rises are due to Putins decision re Ukraine and restricting gas supplies, how much the rises are caused by China,s huge increase in demand for gas, and how much of the price rises are attributable to the greedy oil and gas companies...( not the energy supply companies ).


I get tired of people like Comrade Sam , who want nothing more than a bloodbath of anarchy. Pathetic creature.

 

[Icy Gull]

Yes, because of supply chain problems as we emerged from Covid. Again, well understood by everyone and particularly by Putin. Macron is also correct. Perhaps I’m just banging myself against the brick wall of the latest internet conspiracy theory. Probably best not to get involved.

I’m with you but I’ll also hunker down on this now. The Tories and Johnson in particular can rightly be blamed for a lot of bad things that have happened since Covid, the price of energy is not one of them imo

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Harry, he is correct. I’m sorry. What else do you think is driving gas, oil and power markets higher ? Putin has toyed with the markets for a couple of years, particularly with his cat and mouse games with the German Green Party over their continued refusal to allow the Nordstream 2 pipeline. We are now putting our money where our mouths are over support for Ukraine. That’s just a fact. Now there are very good arguments that someone else should pay eg the energy producers. I have a lot of sympathy for that argument but someone will pay for Putin’s actions to reduce both supply and security of supply. Putin pounced when he saw vulnerability. He saw us trying to reduce our reliance on fossil fuel via the energy transition. We were closing coal fired power stations, not renewing nuclear supply and therefore even more reliant on Russia. There was also surging demand post Covid and an infrastructure that was struggling to ramp up supply. This is generally accepted pretty much everywhere so to create a story out of what you say Johnson said is surprising.

He's only partly correct. It's a convienient smokescreen for Johnson to blame Putin rather than have to answer the awkward question of why governments and power companies for the last three decades have utterly failed to invest in increasing the UK generating capacity. If they had then we as a nation would be self sufficient and not beholden to global market prices. A very small percentage of our power relies on Russia - unlike Germany who are looking at rationing.

What the government should do is cap energy suppliers profits to say 10% of turnover. The surplus is either taxed at 100% and the government use it to increase capacity or the supplier can choose to pay no tax on the surplus if they invest 100% it in increasing capacity. Problem being is it won't solve the problem we have right now. Stable, door and bolted spring to mind !

And what's happened to all these new power stations Johnson promised to build ? Not one site identified, not one planning application put in, not one brick layed.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

He's only partly correct. It's a convienient smokescreen for Johnson to blame Putin rather than have to answer the awkward question of why governments and power companies for the last three decades have utterly failed to invest in increasing the UK generating capacity. If they had then we as a nation would be self sufficient and not beholden to global market prices. A very small percentage of our power relies on Russia - unlike Germany who are looking at rationing.

What the government should do is cap energy suppliers profits to say 10% of turnover. The surplus is either taxed at 100% and the government use it to increase capacity or the supplier can choose to pay no tax on the surplus if they invest 100% it in increasing capacity. Problem being is it won't solve the problem we have right now. Stable, door and bolted spring to mind !

And what's happened to all these new power stations Johnson promised to build ? Not one site identified, not one planning application put in, not one brick layed.

Expanding capacity has been a little tricky to achieve given we are accelerating an energy transition. Early shut down of coal fired capacity has created vulnerability and where possible this has now been reversed to counter the threat from Putin. Coal markets have been riding higher because of this policy shift. Opposition to nuclear means no added capacity from this source. It’s fair to say the West (and that means the whole of the West, not the UK on its own) has been reactive throughout this crisis but our vulnerability is self inflicted and well understood by Putin. We now have a clear choice. We can give in and allow Putin free reign in Eastern Europe and Russia will supply as much as we want and we (Europe) can then stop driving up world prices of eg LNG to replace the shortfall. Or we can continue to support Ukraine and allow our economy and citizens to take the pain (with a contribution from energy producers in the form of windfall taxation).

 

[beorhthelm]

Hmmmmm.... I think what a lot of people, including myself, want to know is;


Is it possible to give a reasonably accurate account of how much of the price rises are due to Putins decision re Ukraine and restricting gas supplies, how much the rises are caused by China,s huge increase in demand for gas, and how much of the price rises are attributable to the greedy oil and gas companies...( not the energy supply companies ).


I get tired of people like Comrade Sam , who want nothing more than a bloodbath of anarchy. Pathetic creature.

actually there isnt an increase demand from China, they are in stagnation as they keep closing parts of the economy to attempt zero covid. this has lead to a lot of inflation across the world as the restricted supply of goods increases prices. the oil and gas extraction companies sell production at spot prices, the benefit from the price rises but dont really create them, its demand lead. there's probably an amount of increase from traders taking advantage, they cant usually enginer large diviations for prolonged periods. fact is Germany in particular is filling their stores of gas while Russia keeps cutting supply, so they have to buy spot prices to keep supply coming. meanwhile everytime the wind drops we buy more gas to cover the shortfall there too.

 

[drew]

Hmmmmm.... I think what a lot of people, including myself, want to know is;


Is it possible to give a reasonably accurate account of how much of the price rises are due to Putins decision re Ukraine and restricting gas supplies, how much the rises are caused by China,s huge increase in demand for gas, and how much of the price rises are attributable to the greedy oil and gas companies...( not the energy supply companies ).


I get tired of people like Comrade Sam , who want nothing more than a bloodbath of anarchy. Pathetic creature.

Tend to agree. As I see it, it is the oil and gas extraction companies that are effectively profiteering whilst we dealing with a war in Ukraine! Simple laws of supply and demand are driving up the prices resulting in windfall profits for those companies. It's not like the cost of production has increased.

Surely, as all oil/gas/coal belong to the state and these companies pay for a licence to extract and supply, then why can't the government, in time of crisis, dictate to them the price they can charge? By that, I mean keep the prices much closer to what they were pre war. The companies could still be allowed to make a profit but not to the extent they are doing now.

Of course, ideologically, this is something the Tories would never consider as profit take precedent over the welfare of population.

 

[beorhthelm]

He's only partly correct. It's a convienient smokescreen for Johnson to blame Putin rather than have to answer the awkward question of why governments and power companies for the last three decades have utterly failed to invest in increasing the UK generating capacity. If they had then we as a nation would be self sufficient and not beholden to global market prices. A very small percentage of our power relies on Russia - unlike Germany who are looking at rationing.

What the government should do is cap energy suppliers profits to say 10% of turnover. The surplus is either taxed at 100% and the government use it to increase capacity or the supplier can choose to pay no tax on the surplus if they invest 100% it in increasing capacity. Problem being is it won't solve the problem we have right now. Stable, door and bolted spring to mind !

And what's happened to all these new power stations Johnson promised to build ? Not one site identified, not one planning application put in, not one brick layed.

we restrict anything being built. wind, solar, nuclear or gas, get objected to and held up for years. we generally cry out about the need for infrastructure, while complaining and protesting against every infrastructure project. another factor is policy to stop using fossil fuels, so oil & gas companies have stopped investing much in oil and gas infrastructure, sweated assets and return more to shareholders. cap profits means you cap available finance for future investment, so thats a terrible idea for long term. money returned to shreholders should find new investment opportunities, so what is needed is direction what to invest in. we've lacked sensible energy policy for decades, so that does need to be addressed, focusing on energy provision and security first and other factors second.

 

[Randy McNob]

only one person to blame, we are at the mercy of rampant captilalism and have no control since we do not own our utilities. France own theirs and they increased 4%. I give you....